Gerson Boom VS Master Oogway (Deltarune VS Kung Fu Panda) Blog

Justice in Jade.

Dash Fish

(Gerson art by DarkWorldz95)

Moofie

AlfieMations

Lolman

Necrostar

(Gerson art by the Winterer)


MonkeyBoi

Mediocre Productions

“Master the truths you learn. Teach the truths you master.”

-Matshona Dhliwayo

Gerson Boom, the Hammer of Justice.
Grand Master Oogway, the Jade Sage of Kung Fu.

True mastery is something only found in the greatest of warriors. The pure skill to be the one people look up to for every last detail of a subject. The unsurpassing confidence one has to emit to even dream of being above the best, of the best, of the best… Truly those things are what separates the greatest from the pure elites. These two old masters who train others in their wake always want to bring about the best in their students, and just so happen to be turtles as well!

Before We Begin...

For Oogway’s media, we’ll be using the original Kung Fu Panda movies and other supplemental material connected to it like the shows and short films and such. While the shows, or at least one, have been stated to be non-canon, we’re researching them anyway to give Oogway more to talk about, plus the shows are consistent enough with the main movies that there’s really no reason not to use them other than one creator statement. (Also there legitimately isn’t a consistent available source for if they’re truly canon or not.) And we won't be using the games or anything else for Oogway, since they stray pretty far off from the natural canon of KFP, even more so than the shows. For Gerson, Deltarune’s current four chapters will be analyzed, as well Undertale, but only to a certain extent. We’ll be comparing certain aspects of Deltarune’s lore to Undertale, as well as tackling some things regarding its connected canonicity, but it will be fully explained in the Before the Verdict section. 

Sources used:
some random prediction bloggers ig - Fun Gang VS Occult Club

Saul’s VS Blog - Spamton VS Dr. Coomer

G1 - Ness VS Frisk

Saul’s VS Blog - Shifu VS Splinter

SonallyKingKataang’s Blogs - Oogway VS Hashirama
Deltarune and Kung Fu Panda Wikis

Now, let’s begin our journey...

Background

Gerson

“I’m old!”

• Full Name: Gerson Boom

• Also called “Old Man”

• Age: Deceased!

• Resident of Hometown(‘s Church)

• Renowned historian, author, and teacher

• Likes: Smithing, writing, reading

The humble town of… Hometown, is a humble little… town, in which monsters reside, although despite the name, these folks are nothing more than a friendly if small community that lives like any of us humans would. Going to school, setting up shops, ICEes…. And restaurants. Electing a mayor and establishing festivals, stuff like that, but by far the most impactful aspect of the town was the town church, and in the study of said church often resided the renowned historian of the town, Gerson Boom.

Not much is known of Gerson’s life, while in a different universe he was a great hero in a war that divided two races and caused one of them to be sealed away (while also getting him in an implied relationship with a mage), in the world of Deltarune, Gerson used to be a simple smith, before turning to the creativity of literature, and writing the great book series, known as “Lord of the Hammer”. While he managed to pass down the church to his son, Alvin (and give his position as teacher to the nervous anxiety wreck known as Alphys), like any old man, his time reached an end, forever being remembered by the town as an inspiring figure… but what if, the memories remained, took shape somewhere else… and the dead didn’t stay fully dead?

On a faithful, rainy day… the Knight, the Roaring Knight plunged their blade into the church of Hometown, with their will they gave the shadows form, a Dark Sanctuary created, the newly made Dark World allowing Darkners to be perceived, usually motionless items being given form in a place darker than darkness itself, but they weren’t the only residents of this new world, in a recreation of a familiar study, with a casing full of dust, a hammer, and the photo of a certain historian… the Old Man came to be, if in a different way.

The Dark World gave Gerson shape from the memories of his past life, and very quickly, he met up with three heroes of prophecy, a Human, a Prince of the Dark, and a fellow Monster, Susie. At first Susie saw him as nothing but a clueless old man who was slow going and perhaps ignorant, but along the journey, the old man showed his real thoughts on the matter, or more specifically, his thoughts on the prophecy. The Prophecy of the Deltarune, telling of a legend that would come to be, Gerson… thought it was frankly silly, to him, a life predetermined might as well be no life at all, he chose his own path, and showed Susie, and perhaps Kris as well, that despite the impossible odds, there could be another path to take. Helping the girl gain confidence in her healing magic, he told the trio of a special weapon, after solving a piano puzzle (and giving the three heroes a deserved tea break), in the back of the studio, Gerson challenged Susie. If she couldn’t pay for the (frankly too expensive) axe, then she just needed to give him a haircut, in return, he would give her the axe, a mysterious crystal… and a lesson she would never forget, as she faced, The Hammer of Justice.

Through the frantic fight, Gerson made her go all out, while also retelling the Lord of the Hammer to her. The story that changed the life of many, never was truly finished, the pen was never picked up, but in Susie, he saw a bright light that could wield the pen known as hope. He not only believed that people could take their own path, but that stories could be rewritten, fate be damned. After finally landing a hit on him, Susie received her prize, and with her role assigned by him, Gerson knew, that the Dragon would make the right choice. Joining the Lightners one last time to take down the all powerful Titan, the Dark Sanctuary was closed, Gerson now being nothing but dust and the hammer once more, but he would live on in memory, passing one last message to his son, and in the lesson he gave to the girl, he would always be there, with her, in the dark.

Oogway

“There are no accidents.”

• Name: Grand Master Oogway

• Age: Almost 1000!… but also deceased

• Originally from the Galapagos Islands

• Invented Kung Fu

• Pretty wise, all things considered

• Likes: Peaches, meditation, travel, tea
  
  

Long ago, Oogway set out from his home of the Galapagos Islands, meeting other cultures, travelling the world. At some point, he teamed up alongside his friend General Kai, but Oogway was mortally injured during the campaign. Seeking the best healers, Oogway and Kai came across the pandas, who taught Oogway the way of Chi. Of course, what could be given could also be taken, and Kai grew to be quite the collector of others’ Chi, and as such, Oogway had to fight him. Sometime after this encounter, Oogway would continue his journeys, becoming an ally of the Four Constellations, conspiring with them to prevent their fallen master Jindiao from capturing the Wellspring, which is the source of all Chi in the world. Oogway also fought a dangerous tribe of Underworld Demons who had taken up residence in what will eventually become the Valley of Peace as we know it using the Hero’s Chi and his kung fu abilities, along with using the Peach Tree of Heavenly Wisdom to re-energize him to deal with the final demon, sealing him in the body of a pig.

Oogway would also help establish the Kung Fu Council, of which Croc, Thundering Rhino, and Storming Ox, teaching them a valuable lesson in teamwork as they ascended to the new leadership of Gongmen City (as Shen had been banished from the city). Oogway would later establish the Jade Palace, and begin taking in students such as Shifu, who would ascend to the rank of Master, alongside the Furious Five. During the trial to name the Dragon Warrior, one panda, Po (THE Kung Fu Panda himself!) had landed right where Oogway pointed, now being named the Dragon Warrior. Shifu had thought this to be a mistake, an accident on Oogway's end, but there are no accidents. Of course, Oogway’s time had come, and so passed on his staff to Shifu, and ascended to the Spirit Realm.

Though remember that old evil dragon guy who Oogway didn’t really get along with? Well, the Peach Tree had held Ke-Pa in this pig form for decades, but eventually many years later, Ke-Pa sought to return to his dragon form. Oogway at this point had already passed on, but Ke-Pa had taken advantage of the current Dragon Warrior’s stubbornness, breaking the tree of its last petal and turning Ke-Pa into a dragon again. Ke-Pa enslaved the Valley of Peace once more, but of course, Po had been underestimated by Ke-Pa. With Po’s knowledge of Oogway’s teachings, he shot one final sealing chi blast into the demon and defeated him for good. Oogway was long gone, but his legacy still remained. With Oogway, you really gotta get used to that kinda thing.

Years after his ascension, Oogway had another fight with his old friend General Kai, the latter of which stole Oogway’s chi and used it (as well as the chi of other defeated masters) to escape the Spirit Realm. Po, the newly-realized Dragon Warrior, would defeat Kai, and in doing so, returned to Oogway in the Spirit Realm. There, Po had learned why he was chosen all those years ago. Within Po, Oogway saw the future of kung fu, and the past. He had remembered being healed by a caring tribe of pandas all those years ago, and saw the savior of kung fu right in front of him. The panda who would defeat Tai Lung, Shen, and Kai. The panda… who saved all of China. There really are no accidents, are there?

Experience & Skill

Gerson

Before the events of Deltarune, Gerson was an old tortoise who originally worked as a weapon smith before changing his careers to a writer, then a teacher in Hometown’s School. Gaining heavy notoriety in both ventures with apparently heavy shoes to fill after his passing. During the events of Deltarune he was reborn as a Darkner, and showed proficient skill while fighting alongside the Delta Warriors. Somehow he learned to analytically predict enemies’ bullet patterns to help out his friends and later on against Susie he showed no bards against her, trapping her into a fight she couldn’t run from. Not only did he manage to fight on-par with all of the Delta Warriors, he even managed to weaken a Titan’s entire shield. Gerson’s style is often rapid-fire, using his equipment and magic to quickly overwhelm his opponent, and eventually weaken their SOUL enough to defeat them. Oh, also he steals items because he wants to keep a fair game between him and his opponent.

Oogway

Oogway has been alive for nearly 1000 years and is the one who created, and mastered, Kung Fu. He’s fought in many wars with his former brother in arms Kai, training warriors (such as Shifu and the Furious Five) to be as skillful as he is. Eventually he had to fight Kai who had turned to the dark forces of the universe, but let him win since it wasn’t his destiny to defeat Kai. He’s been called the greatest kung fu master there ever was several times over, and oversaw various masters creating techniques while creating numerous on his own. In fact he created so many that he had to start making scrolls containing them. He’s defeated foes like Fenghuang the Owl, who challenged Oogway’s position as master, the Scorpion, who mind controlled the Valley of Peace, and Ke-Pa the Dragon, who terrorized all of China. He even helped with the defeat of Tai Lung and of course Kai who we mentioned earlier. Oogway’s skill relies on his very wide and extensive knowledge on his own martial art, and harnessing the flow of inner peace and chi, boosting his own strength and powers along with it. With his innate knowledge of balance as an art, Oogway hardly loses a fight unless he knows it’s his destiny not to.

Arsenal

Gerson

Cane

Gerson uses this cane to walk around the Dark World, where it has been used to flip heavy objects. If he drops it, the SOUL can interact with it to help know where to dodge the bullet patterns; moving along the box.

Dark Candy

Gerson has some candy on him that he can give to almost everyone that’ll heal to the max. He can likely use this on himself, too.

The Hammer of Justice

He ain’t called the Hammer of Justice for nothing! This is Gerson’s prime weapon, and a very powerful one at that. Gerson can throw this thing so fast and hard that it can heavily weaken a Titan’s defenses, massively helping the party in the process. Also it likely has at least some magical properties to it, as it’s the only thing in the game able to deflect Susie’s attacks outright.

Hammers

Replacing his main Hammer of Justice for a normal sized one, Gerson can spam throw loads more hammers into the battle box akin to a Hammer Bro. Gerson even has one giant hammer finishing off his hammer spamming technique, and a side-swinging hammer that breaks the SOUL’s projectile shield.

Shells

Is that the fucking Koopa shell from Super Mario Bros??? Well, it sure as hell acts like one. Gerson uses these in two separate ways, throwing one shell to bounce around the entire screen with, and using multiple in tandem with his projectile magic. The shell when thrown has star projectiles behind it, making it harder to dodge, and even explodes into more stars once it’s shattered. These shells also tank hits depending on what color they are, at most being red, being able to survive five hits before disappearing.

Armor

Like any typical knight, Gerson has heavy metal armor protecting him from incoming attacks. He even has armor plated over his shell, extra extra protection I guess?

Shopkeep Items

Gerson has a shop in his study and you can buy these items if you so please. While Gerson isn’t too likely to be carrying these on his person, he still would technically have access to them.

Rhapsotea	As it’s being poured, it sounds like whispered singing. Heals 115 HP.
Scarlixir	A red brew with a fruity taste. Fitting for the person reading this blog. Heals 155 to 160 HP depending on the person.
Waferguard	A weak-looking amulet that is not edible. Its magic energy enhances Defense by 4 when equipped.
Scarf Mark	A thin scarf with holy writing pressed into it. Enhances Attack by 4, Defense by 1, and Magic by 1.

Pen and Paper

Hold up!! His [PROSE] is this [ELEGANT]???

Oogway

Peach Tree Staff

A wooden staff, created out of wood from the peach tree of heavenly wisdom, is said to ward off evil. Oogway uses this to balance in meditation, and it clearly has some spiritual connection to Oogway and the cherry tree it came from, as when it broke it emitted a jade glow with petals flying by in memory. Oogway passed this down to Master Shifu once it was his time, and Shifu’s used it to ever so slightly manipulate the wind (or at least the cherry petals) in such a way that it lightly blew down the Dragon Scroll.

Staff of Wisdom

The Staff of Wisdom Oogway held for (presumably) years in the Spirit Realm, it allows the user to travel between the living realm and the Spirit Realm, as well as open a portal for spirits. The staff can also create enhanced energy projectiles to harm foes. Oogway apparently has a bigger version, and passed this one down to Po once it was his time.

Other Staffs

In his Kai backstory Oogway is shown with two other staffs. The left one can break off tips of metal weaponry, and the right one was used to defeat Kai.

Sacred Scrolls

Oogway wrote down multiple techniques he learned through all his years of training, and passed them down to the Jade Palace before his death.

Owl-Shaped-Cage

Anticipating her betrayal, Oogway with his knowledge had made an inescapable owl-shaped-cage just to contain the Eda-wannabe Fenghuang. And despite missing the chance to use it initially, years later it still fit her like a charm.

(Eda wannabe, heheheh - Pad)

(She literally has the same VA and existed years before TOH lol - Mediocre)

(Wait- WHAT??? - Necrostar)

Tea

Mmm… good tea.

Peach Tree of Heavenly Wisdom

Now, a tree may seem a bit odd to include in Oogway’s arsenal, but listen to this! Because Oogway had taken such good care of the Valley of Peace and stood to defend it against Ke-Pa, the Peach Tree of Heavenly Wisdom revitalized his energy, allowing him to finish the fight. This tree even enhances warriors like Po from far distances away because of their Hero’s Chi. The Peaches were even stated to possibly be able to defeat Tai Lung, if you’re willing to guide them, to nurture them, and believe in them.

Powers & Abilities

Gerson

Darkner Physiology

The world of Deltarune is separated into two different places, Light World and Dark World. Those who reside in the Dark World are called Darkners, and are the remanifestations of objects found in the Light World. Like, Cyber World city is full of electronics and software, so in the Light World it’s located in a computer lab. In Gerson’s case, his remains were left in the church and so when entering the church’s Dark World, he reappears good as new. Well, kinda. He’s in a state where he technically was an existing person before, but is also still dead at the same time. His alive Light World form was obviously a Lightner and had a SOUL with the ability to create Dark Fountains, but upon his rebirth Gerson lacks both of these things. Or perhaps just lacks a less powerful SOUL, it’s unclear. Not quite dead, not quite alive.

Soul Manipulation

See that little heart right there in the GIF? That’s you! Well, at least the manifestation of what you control in Deltarune. How DR’s combat system works is that the SOUL, the ultimate culmination of your being, is put into the Bullet Board for projectiles to be thrown at it. When Gerson turns his opponent’s SOUL green, they’re unable to escape from the fight. This kind of stuff is typical for anyone you fight in Deltarune, and one’s physical durability would essentially be negated if their SOUL is ever taken control of and damaged, processing the damage taken onto the SOUL outwardly. Though, that last part is Debatable, See Before the Verdicts.

SPARE

Sometimes, you don’t wanna fight your enemies, and you want them to be your friend! Gerson does this when he wants to recruit more people into his study. Usually when other people do this the enemy’s name has to be yellow first but… Gerson ignores that.

Projectile Magic

These arrows targeting the SOUL, not too dissimilar to a certain angry fish woman’s projectiles, give the player a shield to protect from them. They’re also used in tandem with other items like Gerson’s shells and exploding hammer to pressure his opponent into getting hit even more.

Fourth Wall Interaction

Gerson, unlike a lot of other Deltarune combatants, can interact with the Bullet Board that holds the SOUL. Not only can he push it aside, but also squash and stretch it out to fit the entire screen.

Duplication

Gerson can make multiple clones of himself, the most we’ve seen him have on-screen at once is eight, and they quickly disappear after attacking.

Teleportation

Gerson can vanish and reappear around different parts of the screen, and while he usually uses teleportation quickly in succession, he can also stay vanished for far longer.

Projectile Deflection

While this may seem iffy to declare on Gerson’s part, Gerson is the only enemy in the game able to interact directly with Susie’s Rude Buster attack. Rude Buster is a magic attack like any other, and Gerson seemingly just interacts with it. Gerson can likely interact with similar projectiles of the sort if he so pleases.

Dual Buster ½

“Your soul is shining… a new ACT appeared!”

In the final battle against the Titan, all hope seemed lost… until a wild Gerson appeared! Now fighting alongside the Fun Gang, Gerson can pair with Susie’s Rude Buster to create the Dual Buster. No longer using up any TP (Tension Points); it deals enough lasting damage to both the Titan’s outer shell and its shield.

Oogway

Tortoise Physiology

Being a tortoise from the Galapagos Islands, Oogway would obviously have the attributes and characteristics of one from the real world too. They’re cold-blooded, relying heavily on heat for energy, and can live up to almost 200 years. Their hard shells are a part of their skeletal structure and can even withstand 165 MPa, over 20 times harder than concrete. While they aren’t deaf creatures, they do tend to rely more on vision and smell rather than hearing.

Spirit Warrior Physiology

Yes, Oogway is a tortoise, but he’s also a Spirit Warrior! Simply, a dead warrior of any variety that resides in the Spirit Realm. While most warriors don’t get to this point, both Po and Oogway became so enlightened to the point that they can escape the Spirit Realm with their immense amount of chi. Also Oogway has a stick that can do that too but... that’s in the arsenal section, just scroll up if you want. In this state after forgoing his physical form, Oogway gains immortality and the ability to travel between the Mortal and Spirit Realms whenever he likes.

Kung Fu

The martial art that Oogway has not only mastered to its fullest extent, but straight up invented as well. Oogway’s a very proficient warrior already, but honing in on his skills with the usage of Tortoise Style techniques, Oogway prioritizes inner chi and balance more than anything else.

Chi

The spiritual energy found in all living things in the Kung Fu Panda universe, harnessing chi allows the user to heal their target using their own life force. Also, while Oogway doesn’t use this part of it all too much, it’s possible to absorb chi from someone else if you’re above or comparable to them in some way. When one’s chi is absorbed it can be passed to others for a strength and life force boost. Chi can also be harnessed in many other ways, including:

• Healing - Naturally, when chi is imbued into others, it can heal wounds and spiritual damage if enough people join in.

• Power Amplification - Chi can be harnessed in tandem with an attack to give it a boost in power, and even amp up the user’s speed.

• Energy Projection - Users can cast projectiles from their body to attack others with, and also create simple constructs like shields.

• Petrification - Chi has been shown to turn people completely into stone, and even rushing lava.

• Dimensional Travel / BFR - Objects and theoretically people as well can be sent by chi into the Spirit Realm.

• Telekinesis - Chi can hold up objects in the air, making them float.

• Light Manipulation - Chi can be used as a small light source.

• Soul Manipulation - Po and the Four Constellations blasted Jindiao with their chi to send his soul out of his body, and once it was sealed in the urn he faded to ash. While it did take multiple people to accomplish this, Jindiao’s high chi was likely why.

• Sound Manipulation - Sound itself fueled by chi, at least somewhat.

• Clothing Manipulation - Po gave himself drip after getting imbued with others’ chi.

• Reality Warping - Po changed this area of the Spirit Realm to a different color when getting saved from Kai, and this hasn’t been shown again.

• Immortality (Type 1) / Longevity - Jindiao sustained himself for nearly a thousand years with his chi powers, harnessing them from “lesser beings”.
  
  

Hero’s Chi

Gifted to one master of Kung Fu once in a generation, the Hero’s Chi comes in several different forms. Oogway’s Hero Chi makes him more connected to his domain of the Peach Tree of Heavenly Wisdom, and can heavily intensify his stamina and abilities with the powers of Heaven and Earth. Like normal chi, the Hero’s Chi also has a few extra abilities it comes with:

• Sealing - Hero’s Chi allows for targets to be sealed away in prison realms, though we’ve only seen it work on demons.

• Transmutation - Oogway trapped Ke-Pa into the body of a pig, but this is rather situational as the narration states the Peach Tree itself protected Oogway fully.

Inner Peace

One of Oogway’s final teachings, inner peace is the most powerful state of mind and spirit only achieved by the greatest of kung fu masters, which Oogway mastered alongside kung fu itself. Inner peace is a genuine technique that can be mastered and even summoned at will by knowledgeable enough users. Inner peace can be used to achieve things like:

• Enhanced Acrobatics - Po could hop across small rocks on this lava river with ease.

• Projectile Deflection - When Po first unlocked inner peace, it allowed him to easily deflect Shen’s cannonballs. Any energy projectiles can also be deflected and split in two.

Mind Manipulation

Because of the villager’s loyalty to Oogway, the spell they were brought under by Scorpion simply just… reversed itself. While this is impressive, given that this ability’s based on loyalty, Oogway’s target would likely have to know him first for this to work.

Dimensional Travel

“Awesome.”

Oogway, though never having tried to leave the Spirit Realm before, eventually did in the shows. He doesn’t even use the Staff of Wisdom here, and simply just travels back to the Spirit Realm no problem.

Enhanced Senses

On one of Oogway’s many journeys of discovery, he wept into a beautiful pool while meditating. Moved by the beauty of nature, it heightened his senses to be able to hear faint noises like a butterfly’s wingbeat and the ability to see clearer in naturally darker spaces.

Cosmic Awareness

Oogway's connection with his own chi and the universe (and also probably from a lot of meditation) allows him to give signs to people from the afterlife, sense people who he can’t even see yet, sense emotional pain in people he’s just met, and knows when it’s time for certain things to just… happen. We even see Shifu from many miles away become aware when Po became fatally wounded during the events of the second film.

Precognition

Oogway, the prophecy giving master he is, can sense darkness in people’s hearts even if they have a pure upbringing like with Tai Lung or Oogway’s brother (in arms) Kai. This is likely due to his mystic connection with the universe. Though this ability is fairly limited, as Oogway can’t sense all imminent danger (take for example the couple times he’s gotten ambushed without knowing beforehand). Though, he did know that Tai Lung would return to the Jade Palace. Oogway more so just predicts when darkness can happen and manifest in others, and always knows what his own destiny is. Heck, he even sensed that Po would be the future Dragon Warrior when they first met.

Non-Physical Interaction

Jiang shi are hopping undead corpses that arise when disrespected by the living. Because Shifu and Po can interact with them without anything special, as well as Monkey and Tigress, means that Oogway should be able to also.

Self-Sustenance

The Dragon Warrior and other capable chi masters are able to harness their inner spirit to give themselves sustenance, or in Jindiao’s case harnessing others’ chi for around a thousand years to increase his lifespan as a spirit. Strong enough kung fu masters can even naturally fast for weeks to refine their spirit.

Hing Kung

Also called the art of balance, this is where Oogway gets his great mastery of stability from. Through deep meditation, kung fu masters can become as light as a feather, allowing them to walk on floating leaves and thrown projectiles in the air. We see this demonstrated in Oogway’s very first appearance when he effortlessly balances upside-down on his staff.

Nerve Attack

Pressure point techniques are a mainstay in martial arts media throughout history, so of course Kung Fu Panda has its own take on it. Once someone’s pressure points are targeted they instantly become limp and their chi becomes blocked. They can only be brought back when their nerves are restimulated by someone else, and doesn't really work on more plus-size individuals whose nerve points are deeper in their bodies. It’s also worth noting that Oogway can somehow start his pressure point technique with his staff giving him more of a long-range advantage with this usually close-range attack.

Wuxi Finger Hold

“Skadoosh.”

One of the most well-known yet secretive techniques throughout the Kung Fu Panda world. By grabbing someone’s finger and lifting your pinky, the Wuxi Finger Hold will send the target to the Spirit Realm, causing a rippling shockwave for miles. This technique was shown to not work on Kai, as he is a Spirit Warrior, since he was already from the Spirit Realm and all. Given that Kai notes the technique only works on mortals, it can be presumed this technique wouldn’t work on someone already dead.

Fluttering Finger Mindslip

Written on the sacred scrolls, performing this technique erases the short term memory of the target. If done repeatedly however, it can even cause full memories to erase from a target, like the Furious Five.

Chao Wa Punch Kick

A series of blows that if done in succession, paralyze the target completely. Like the mindslip, it also comes from the sacred scrolls.

Golden Lotus Clap

Presumably invented by Oogway, this technique is performed by the user clapping their hands together, blinding anyone directly looking at them. When Po was looking directly at the move, he was permanently blinded by it until it had to be undone by Shifu himself.

Silken Moon Touch

By harnessing a vow of silence into a single blow, the user can cause a massive blue shockwave sending the target and everything around them upwards. Oogway nor one of his pupils created this, but since Oogway was the reason Master Wushen invented the technique in the first place, it’s pretty likely that Oogway can achieve this himself as well. At least to a similar degree.

Five-Fingered Blast Punch

This is a move that sends an explosion through a target and can be used to shatter large rocks easily. When used on a person, it’s implied to decay their body from the inside out, maybe acting as a form of durability negation, but again it’s only implied.

Paralyzing Touch Points

Similar to the Nerve Attack, this is a similar kind of technique which freezes the target in place. However, the main difference is that if it isn’t undone within an hour, the target will be freezed permanently.

Levitation

No fancy name here, this just allows the user to levitate quickly in the air.

Staying-still-for-a-really-long-time Technique

Used by Mantis to trick his captors, this move requires patience and fortitude, waiting for the right moment to strike your opponent. Basically the fancy way for kung fu masters to play dead.

Thalia Leap

This technique involves running up a surface and then performing an offensive strike. Used by Tigress to hang lanterns.

Pinwheel Attack

A technique having the user throw multiple objects in other directions. Used by Mantis to set the table.

Twelve Impossible Moves

Thundering Wind Hammer

After spinning rapidly and then stopping oneself, a ball of energy sends the target flying extremely far and extremely hard. Along with likely the rest of the techniques, it’s deflectable.

Mongolian Fireball

This technique creates a sort of temporary pseudo-black hole, sucking in nearby things to be poofed out of existence.

Shielding Spell

This is a simple shield that when casted can protect from and absorb any incoming damage.

“Spears of Fire”

This unleashes two fiery projectiles from the user’s hands. Or, wings in Fenghuang’s case.

“Spinny Fast Thing”

This one has the user spin rapidly, kicking up dust and knocking opponents back.

“The One Where You Slam The Ground”

Sends a rippling shockwave on the ground, akin to the Golden Lotus Clap.

“The Clappy Wings Deal”

Waving your arms and then clapping your hands together blows back your opponent far distances.

“Flying Ring of Energy”

This technique acts as a sort of homing projectile, locking in onto the user’s target. We never learned the rest of the moves after this, sadly.

Five Great Mystic Secrets

Iron Heart

A Kung Fu technique which multiplies your natural punching, lifting and throwing strength by a “thousand fold.”

Clap of Stillness

This move allows the user to freeze every nearby object or person around them; it lasts as long as the user wants.

Jin Tian’s Tempest

A Kung Fu technique which allows you to shoot lightning bolts from your fingertips!!!! These lightning bolts are able to be used to control / levitate metal in the general vicinity, along with the ability to charge up the metal to emit a constant bolt of electricity to anything it touches.

Eight-Armed Yangtze Spleen Punch

Once performed, the user releases an energy straight out of their mind that stuns every opponent within a 100 yard radius. Right before knocking them far back with a shockwave.

Wings of Light

This technique grants the user astral wings for the ability of flight. You can disable them at any time.

Misc. Techniques

These are techniques we never see in action, or only hear of once or twice.

• The Eye Gouge - Likely for… gouging someone’s eyes out, this was on the scrolls from before.

• Invisible Sneak Attacks With Your Mind - Also from the scrolls, this isn’t elaborated on and likely just inflicts mental damage on the opponent somehow.

• Cloven Hooved Exploding Head Technique - According to Monkey, it actually explodes someone’s head.

• Musical Mayhem - This is an attack made by Master Frog, mentioned under a portrait of him. A musical-based attack perhaps?

• Legendary Lashing Tail of Terror - Used by the criminal Master Croc against anyone who stood in his way.

Resistances

Gerson

• Extreme Temperatures (Hot and Cold) - Likely comparable to the Fun Gang, who were near temperatures measured to both 999°F and -999°F.

• Mind Control - Likely comparable to Berdly who managed to physically break out of the face plug by Queen, albeit after the whole fight.

• Transmutation - Multiple Darkners across every chapter show the ability to transform at will, and Ralsei himself even breaks out of forced transmutation as a plushie.

Oogway

• Chi Absorption [Limited] - When a chi user’s chi is absorbed by someone else, if their chi is greater than the absorber it won’t work.

• Transmutation - Po, with enhanced chi from his allies, was able to break out from being turned into a jombie. While yes, Oogway was fully transformed into a jombie, he notes that it wasn’t his destiny to defeat Kai, meaning he likely didn’t resist transmutation on purpose.

• Sleep Manipulation - Due to a kung fu master’s iron resolve, it makes putting them to sleep extremely hard.

Feats

Gerson

Overall

• Became a renowned teacher, historian, and blacksmith

• Got married (probably, we don’t know if Ms. Boom is actually his wife)

• Made peace with his son Alvin

• Upheld his title as the Hammer of Justice

• Recruited several unlikely allies to his side

• Helped the Delta Warriors defeat many enemies and a Titan

• Helped Susie believe in pursuing her own story

Power

• Can break the green SOUL's shield with his hammers

• Damaged the Titan’s shield heavily in one blow

• Can throw his hammer a very large distance (1.8 Megajoules - 0.0765 Tons of TNT, Wall - Small Building Level+)

Durability

• Takes a hit from Susie with no issue

• He can also survive...uhm...uhhhhhh. Wait, that's really it???

Speed

• Casually dodged Susie’s attacks right in front of her face

• Is the only character in the game able to fully react and dodge Rude Buster

• Can steal Susie’s items before she can react (Mach 1.31, Supersonic)

• Throwing his hammer would yield a speed of… (34.6 m/s - Mach 1.35, Superhuman - Supersonic)

• Comparable to the Sound of Justice, who outpaced soundwaves (Mach 32.73 - 39.27, High Hypersonic)

• Can be in multiple places at once (Infinite) (Inapplicable, See Before the Verdicts)

Oogway

Overall

• Invented Kung Fu

• Defeated Kai (temporarily), Ke-Pa, Fenghuang, Scorpion, and Tai Lung (also temporarily)

• Brought peace to the Valley of Peace

• Raised Master Shifu as his own

• Formed the Furious Five

• Chose Po as his true successor

• Achieved inner peace and enlightenment in the Spirit Realm

Power

• Threw Master Rhino and Master Croc easily

• With a chi blast knocked back Rhino and Croc again, along with Master Ox

• Fought Fenghuang and seemingly shattered several stone objects

• Quickly dispersed a fog bank (2.27 - 37.98 Megatons of TNT, Small City - City Level)

• Oogway’s battle with Kai “shook the Earth” (1.06 Teratons of TNT, Small Country Level) (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)

• His chi was powerful enough to be utilized for escaping the Spirit Realm (See Before the Verdicts)

Durability

• Has a shell hard enough to break Scorpion’s stinger

• Fell down lava and was fine afterwards

• Endured multiple attacks from Ke-Pa

• Tanked Kai slamming two large rocks into him, causing a shockwave (653.6 Kilotons, Large Town Level+)

Speed

• A Galapagos tortoise’s top speeds are 0.16 mph (Below Average Human)

• Can perceive a butterfly’s wingbeat, which happens 10 times a second (Peak Human)

• Intercepted Tai Lung before he got to the scroll

• Rushed to save Monkey

• Escaped Po’s vision before he reacted

• Caught Kai’s blade that could move at high speeds (Mach 1.48, Supersonic)
  
  

Scaling

All scaling images done by MonkeyBoi!

Gerson

Delta Warriors and Their Allies

Since Gerson has no problem keeping up with Susie and her friends in combat, it’s no question if Gerson should be able to scale. The SOUL is also included for some of these feats.

• Kris:

• Stabbed their knife into the floor (1.44 Megajoules, Wall Level)

• Endured Spamton NEO’s final attack (0.15 - 243.2 Tons of TNT, Small Building - Multi-City Block Level)

• Parried the Sound of Justice (55.45 - 79.84 Tons of TNT, City Block Level+)

• Hugs a dummy really fast :) (25 m/s, Superhuman)

• Dodged meows from the Tasque (Mach 0.576, Subsonic+)

• Chucked a bottle of chocolate milk in a single frame (Mach 1.6, Supersonic)

• Dodged Spamton NEO’s phone waves (Mach 1.7, Supersonic)

• Moved in tandem with lightning (Mach 2803, Massively Hypersonic+)

• Dodged lasers from the Thrash Machine (0.21c, Relativistic)

• Dodged lasers from the Zapper (0.61c - 0.73c, Relativistic+)

• Susie:

• Blocked soundwaves before they reached Lancer (66.19 m/s, Subsonic)

• Quickly ran from the school to Kris’s house and back (102.01 m/s, Subsonic)

• Dodged the Sound of Justice’s swing (Mach 23.3 - 27.98, Hypersonic+ - High Hypersonic)

• Ralsei:

• Shut the Great Door all on his own (164.8 Metric Tons, Class K)

• Survived getting thrown aside by Lancer (580 Kilojoules, Wall Level)

• Lancer:

• Can tank his own stock explosions point blank

• Noelle:

• Can freeze large enemies like the Tasque (0.1 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• Can cast large ice crystals with Snowgrave (2.21 Tons of TNT, Large Building Level)

• Berdly:

• Implied to be able to carry a large statue of him and Queen (25.28 Metric Tons, Class 50)

• Survived a wire explosion (0.02 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• Survived his rollercoaster exploding (0.038 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• Beat Tobias from Gumball in a rap battle

• All:

• Ralsei and Kris survived the Trash Machine exploding (0.3 Tons of TNT, Building Level)

• Kris, Susie, and Ralsei dodged a Titan’s laser (0.33c, Relativistic)

• Can respectfully hit that shit
  
  

Darkners

The Delta Warriors go up against Darkners all the time, and considering Gerson can heavily weaken a Titan’s entire shield, these seem natural to scale to or even above.

• Queen:

• Has several explosive glasses

• Blew up her own car (0.049 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• In her Giga Queen Mech:

• Tossed a giant baseball so fast it caught on fire (39.913 Kilotons of TNT, Town Level and Mach 5, Hypersonic)

• Can kick real fast (Mach 3.06, Supersonic)

• Can be in multiple places at once (Infinite) (Inapplicable, See Before the Verdicts)

• Titans:

• Exist as living Dark Fountains, which is what sustains Dark Worlds, and Dark Worlds:

• At least contain entire cities (23 - 141 Megatons of TNT, City - Mountain Level)

• Have been shown to contain a moon (6724 Zettatons of TNT, Planet Level)

• Likely have a day-night cycle (267.32 Quettatons of TNT, Star Level)

• Consistently have shown starry skies (16.88 ExaFoe, Multi-Solar System Level)

• Created these starry skies in a number of seconds (10 Million c - 244 Quadrillion c, MFTL+) (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)

• The Titans containing all this power physically is Debatable, See Before the Verdicts.

• The King can make the battlefield rumble

• Swatchlings can carry large arcade machines (1.1 Metric Tons, Class 5)

• Elnina attacked with large ice crystals (0.2 - 1.1 Tons of TNT, Small Building - Building Level)

• The watercooler can create large amounts of water (0.88 Tons of TNT, Building Level)

• Miss Mizzle can create even larger amounts of water (2.5 Tons of TNT, Large Building Level)

• Wicabel can attack with their clapper (that’s what the dinger in a bell is called) (2.82 Tons of TNT, Large Building Level and Mach 11.2, Hypersonic)

• Lanino can create a miniature sun (3.87 Tons of TNT, Large Building Level)

• Miss Mizzle can create nearby rainstorms (3.36 - 8.71 Megatons of TNT, Small City - City Level)

• Shuttah's attacks can move in tandem with camera flashes (16.37 Tons - 2.4 Gigatons of TNT, City Block - Large Mountain Level and Mach 67.97 - 0.72c, High Hypersonic - Relativistic)

• Jackenstein evaded a light from Kris’s SOUL (2.47c, FTL)
  
  

Bonuses and Others

Delta Warriors also fight these guys, and since Gerson himself is also a bonus boss he should be comparable. Oh and there’s just some miscellaneous people here, too.

• Jevil:

• Causes explosions with his scythes... (1.2 Megajoules, Wall Level+)

• ...And an even larger explosion with a big scythe! (1.76 Tons of TNT, Building Level)

• Spamton:

• Creates a city… (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)

• …Which he then presumably destroys (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)

• Fires bullets faster than than soundwaves (Mach 3.29, Supersonic)

• Tenna:

• Can kick quickly in his gold statue state (1.2 Megajoules, Wall Level)

• Blew up Earth with his guns (116 Ronnatons, Brown Dwarf Level) (Inapplicable, See Before the Verdicts)

• Moved a little moon in tandem with lightning (Mach 6954.1, Massively Hypersonic+)

• Undyne breaks a table… just because she can (1.695 Megajoules, Wall Level)

• The Mikes survive their special attack exploding

• The Knight created the Dark Worlds and a Titan

• Pizzapants runs very quickly (Mach 0.96, Transonic)

Undertale Verse

Look… we know Deltarune and Undertale take place in separate universes, or timelines, or what have you (we don’t really know how the game connects to Undertale yet) but Undertale Gerson in his prime should be comparable, and also there’s some arguments to be addressed of Deltarune and Undertale being in the same cosmology at the very least, that haven’t really been fully addressed before, so scaling is potentially... MAYBE applicable. (See Before the Verdicts)

• sans… breaks a big branch (11.22 Kilojoules, Street Level+)

• Undyne suplexes a huge boulder… JUST BECAUSE SHE CAN!

• Mettaton bashes through a wall (0.24 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• Knight Knight can summon meteors (0.021 - 0.85 Tons of TNT, Small Building - Building Level)

• Knight Knight can also create a tiny sun (1.24 Tons of TNT, Building Level)

• Frisk’s SOUL can dodge Greater Dog barks (Mach 0.5, Subsonic+)

• Tsundereplane can fly next to Vulkin’s lightning (Mach 4.83, Supersonic+)

• Papyrus moved his hand in tandem with a beam of light (2.4c, FTL) (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)
  
  

Oogway

Po

The Dragon Warrior himself! Oogway passed down his mantle of the Hero’s Chi, and has shown to be much more proficient in Kung Fu, so scaling Oogway to base Po is fine.

• Survived Master Mastodon’s powers flowing through him, even though Mastodon said it would make him explode

• Threw giant metal hands fairly easily

• Caused a shockwave mid-air, launching a guy over the horizon

• Against Jindiao, dispersed a cloud formation with the Wuxi Finger Hold (21.07 Tons of TNT, City Block Level)

• Against Tai Lung, created a large shockwave with the Wuxi Finger Hold (713 Tons of TNT, Multi-City Block Level)

• Can turn day to night temporarily, and create stars with the Silken Moon Touch (16.88 ExaFoe, Multi-Solar System Level, and 31 Million c - 31 Billion c, MFTL+) (Inapplicable, See Before the Verdicts)

• Ran so fast his hand caught ablaze (Mach 5, Hypersonic)

• Perceived the Furious Five in slow motion (Mach 81.63, High Hypersonic+)

• Reacted to Zuma using Storm Wheels, moving like lightning (Mach 93.31 - 459.22, High Hypersonic+ - Massively Hypersonic)

Shifu

“Po, the commercial is great. But it all starts with a stunning website from Wix.comTM.”
Since Shifu was trained and literally adopted by Oogway at a young age, Oogway scaling to his own student (and like, basically his son, right?) should come naturally.

• Survived the top of a water tower falling on him with… little injury (154.7 Kilojoules, Wall Level)

• Shattered a large rock with a single blow (0.056 Tons of TNT, Small Building Level)

• Shattered several more large rocks with a single blow

• Fragments large pillars with ease

• Tossed Tamutai’s weapon around like it was nothing

• Sends guards of soldiers flying with only a flick

• Can lift all of the Furious Five and Po on his back

• Got kicked hard enough to cause cracks in a wall

• Moved as a blur, stealing a dumpling before Po could react (44.36 m/s, Subsonic)

• Reacted to a crossbow arrow out of nowhere (Mach 1.6, Supersonic)
  
  

Furious Five

Oogway didn’t directly train the Five, but he trained the trainer who trained them, and should be naturally above all of them as well since he’s the Grand Master.

• Tigress:

• Shattered a massive boulder at a young age (0.39 Tons of TNT, Building Level)

• Survived a blast from one of Shen’s cannons (9.12 Tons of TNT, Large Building Level+)

• Generated a sonic boom (558 Tons of TNT, Multi-City Block Level+)

• Ran in tandem with one of Shen’s cannonballs (22.19 m/s, Superhuman)

• Hit Po fast enough to start fire on the ground (Mach 5, Hypersonic)

• Crane:

• Pushed large ships forward with the Wings of Justice

• Survived the KE of flying from the Northern Mountains to the Valley of Peace in just a few seconds (126 Tons - 2 Kilotons of TNT, Multi-City Block - Small Town Level and Mach 1426 - 5704, Massively Hypersonic+)

• Monkey:

• Chucks a large wooden pillar with Crane on it (315.406 Kg, Peak Human)

• Could “beat the pants off anyone”

• Quickly kicks multiple dining mats into specific positions

• Mantis:

• Despite his size, managed to hold up an entire bridge supporting the rest of the Five and Tai Lung (20.9 - 36.6 Metric Tons, Class 25 - 50)

• Sent a goat man flying over the horizon (947.29 Metric Tons, Class K)

• Reacted to light before it got to him (0.07c - 0.23c, Sub-Relativistic - Relativistic)

• Viper:

• Flung Fu-Xi out of the horizon, shattering a rock (947.29 Metric Tons, Class K)

• Tore a wooden support beam holding up an aqueduct

• Reacted to two incoming arrows

Ancient Masters / Tianshang Weapons

Due to Po and Luthera having fought directly on-par with wielders of these weapons, outmatched their original makers, and even fought directly against someone using multiple of them at once, Oogway should easily scale to them all.

• Wugao Gauntlet:

• Caused an explosion, destroying an entire village (16.43 Tons of TNT, City Block Level)

• Caused a volcano to slowly erupt

• Punched a ship quickly into a volcano

• Storm Wheels:

• Created a storm over a village (164.98 Megatons of TNT, Mountain Level)

• Allows its users to travel at lightning speeds (Mach 351.8, Massively Hypersonic)

• All:

• The four weapons combined were able to split Pangea into seven pieces and then did it again with five of them (13.55 Yottatons of TNT, Large Planet Level)

• This is consistent because the weapons have been stated multiple times to be a world-ending threat

• Also since this is all of the weapons’ power combined, Oogway would likely only scale to a fourth of this power, making it 3.38 Yottatons of TNT, Planet Level

• Near the end of the series, all of the masters flew up into space and past the nearest star in only a few seconds (38 Million c, MFTL+) (Debatable, See Before the Verdicts)

Various Warriors

Oogway should be above all these warriors, having either fought them or in Black Tortoise’s case scale due to dragon Po fighting on-par with even higher beings like Jindiao.

• Tai Lung:

• Lifts a large boulder and kicks it (81.9 Metric Tons, Class 100)

• Collapsed a building overtime with a kick (0.031 - 0.21 Tons of TNT, Small Building - Building Level)

• Created a large crater in the street (1.35 Tons of TNT, Building Level+)

• Appears in front of Shifu in an instant (Mach 0.3, Subsonic)

• Metro boomin make it boom

• Beats Azula

• Shen:

• Slashed through a chain link

• Jumps good

• Kept up with Po who reacted to Shen’s cannonballs, officially stated to be moving at… (Mach 2.2, Supersonic)

• Kai:

• Destroyed the Jade Palace by swinging around the Oogway statue

• Carries two huge boulders as he propels himself (46,032 Metric Tons, Class M)

• Tanked a thrown barrel from Crane (4.9 Megajoules, Wall Level)

• Made a crater when returning to the Mortal Realm (12.03 - 37.3 Tons of TNT, City Block Level)

• Smashed the tip of a large stone structure (2.15 Kilotons of TNT, Small Town Level)

• Master Chicken lifted up Master Bear

• Bao’s chi shield withstood a large explosion

• Elephant, possessed by Xi’an, destroyed a large rock (0.6 - 17.53 Tons of TNT, Building - City Block Level)

• Boar cleared a large amount of trees in an instant (20.39 Tons of TNT, City Block Level)

• Hundun survived a fireworks explosion (26.12 Tons of TNT, City Block Level)

• I take credit for finding the feat lol - AlfieMations

• Ke-Pa destroyed the Jade Palace with a fire blast (325.26 Tons - 1.74 Kilotons of TNT, Multi-City Block - Small Town Level)

• The Sacred Hammer of Lei Lang can cause large explosions (10.96 Kilotons of TNT, Town Level)

• Black Tortoise formed a chi shield to block a meteor (2.7 - 116.04 Zettatons of TNT, Small Planet - Planet Level and 0.06c, Sub-Relativistic)

Chi-Based Substances

(That fucking chi that I hate - Necrostar)

Starting with the Shuyong Tree, it’s a living thing (meaning it’s powered by chi) with the power to create spacetime and has also existed before time was even a thing. Naturally, it will also exist after time ends. Granted that it can make time with its seeds while being powered by chi, and Oogway has held the Hero’s Chi before, means he might be able to scale it. 

The Eternal Chord, formed by the synchronisation of five Elemental Tones, is different though. Not only did it form the entire universe originally, but its direct counterpart the Anti-Chord could end it. Since that it’s also fueled by chi, for the reasoning above Oogway could potentially scale.

And the Wellspring. It’s an endless source of power in the world, and is the source of all chi ever. Given the amount of people the Wellspring would have to disperse its chi across, it’s unlikely Oogway would scale to it fully, but he’d likely scale to it just as high as Po would, possibly higher.

The scaling for these three entities is very debatable. As always, See Before the Verdicts.

• Tree:

• Can create time with its fruit and seeds (Universal+)

• Existed before time and will exist after it ends (Immeasurable) (Inapplicable, See Before the Verdicts)

• Chord:

• Created the universe (Universal)

• The Anti-Chord could return the universe to darkness

• Reshaped the universe from nothingness to somethingness in a second (Universal, and 154 Quadrillion c - 2 Quintillion c, MFTL+)

• It’s worth noting that the Shifu VS Splinter blog got a similar number with a higher low end and a slightly lower high end

• Wellspring:

• Is the source of all light (and life) in the universe (20.82 TenaFoe, Multi-Galaxy)

• Contains the chi for every living thing in the universe

Weaknesses

Gerson

Gerson may be the seemingly unkillable Hammer of Justice, but he does have his few setbacks. If he decides to not pick on you (like he did with Susie) then he often resorts to more pacifistic methods of resolving fights like recruiting them to his study. If he’s against a more bloodthirsty opponent, then that could pose a threat to him. Also, near the end of his fight he gets outsmarted by the simple maneuver of Susie whiffing a shot, then following through. Oldest trick in the book.

Oogway

Oogway may be a nigh-flawless martial artist, but he does have his few setbacks. He often resorts to peaceful resolutions of conflict before anything else, which could end badly if he’s up against someone who’s first method of combat is going for their strongest technique first. Also when he dies, he does get sent to the Spirit Realm, but if he dies there then he perishes for good. Also worth mentioning is that if he gets the Staff of Wisdom taken away from him, his connection to the Spirit Realm would be severed, not allowing him to cheat death anymore.

Though… in “Ghost of Oogway” we see that he’s able to travel in and between realms without it in a (seemingly) normal form, and his chi was even strong enough to send Kai out of the Spirit Realm, so this point specifically needs some declaring, See Before the Verdicts.

Before the Verdicts

Gerson

Various Deltarune Feats

Deltarune’s got some weird feats, so let’s go through the two!

City Buster Spamton

During the process towards the secret boss of Chapter 2, you have to go through this underground basement underneath Queen’s Castle. Once you start to fight Spamton Neo, he seemingly creates a city with his face plastered throughout as a backdrop. Before this though it’s noted that the basement is surprisingly big as it contains the infamous tea cup rides that emphasize that it’s a big area. Along with the actual fight’s background going on forever, until he’s defeated. 

Firstly there’s nothing really against the idea that he created it, only that it was through Neo’s reality warping and not a physical AP thing. Secondly, in the both routes against him there’s nothing that suggests that he destroys the city. Cutting the wires show his reality warping with the background again and the one where you don’t simply shows Neo exploding with the fade to his defeat. We don’t see the background go back to normal or what, anything implying that his destruction destroys his city is merely a theory.

Planet Buster Tenna

There’s nothing 100% wrong with the feat itself really, bro really does just shoot the Earth, but Toby has stated that this commercial isn’t canon so this feat isn’t valid for usage anyways. And while yes, we are using questionably canon content for the KFP side of things, scaling likely canon TV shows is less questionable than a straight up advertisement. After all, we aren’t scaling the ads of KFP, unless we want Wix scaling.

Or the cast being able to transform into Shrek - Mediocre Productions

Durability Negation via SOUL Magic

When your SOUL is targeted in Deltarune, it’s brought within the Battle Board to be attacked. And once the SOUL perishes, so does the physical body it's in. Does this mean SOUL magic can bypass physical durability altogether?

Arguments For

As directly stated by Ralsei, the SOUL is the culmination of your being. In that same dialogue, Ralsei makes it pretty clear that if your SOUL gets hit, it has the ability to affect not only Kris, but also their friends as well. The SOUL is getting manipulated, the SOUL is getting hit, but you are losing HP. It processes damage outward onto a target because that’s just how negating someone’s physical durability works. More evidence for the SOUL not being physical is simply just most of the equippable armor in the game. Most of them are things like ribbons, cards, or bands that would have pretty much no chance to protect someone physically. The SOUL can even phase through walls during Susie’s fight against Lancer, implying Kris likely has some kind of non-physical interaction against the SOUL.

Arguments Against

The whole basis of Deltarune’s dura neg arguments are "the SOUL is the spiritual culmination of your being, so therefore attacking it would bypass your physical durability.” However, the problem is that Deltarune's SOUL isn't like that. Maybe in Undertale it is, but not in Deltarune. It's an entity separate from Kris as a character entirely, that's also physical enough to be trapped in things like bird cages or have hockey pucks chucked at it. The SOUL being inside of Susie further backs up that the SOUL isn't a culmination of anything. It can represent multiple characters, and attacking them affects characters aside from Kris. And if the SOUL isn't the physical culmination of anyone, there's no real reason to assume it spiritually negates your physical durability.

Conclusion

It’s debatable and different members on this blog have differing thoughts. Will be considered in the verdicts.

Undertale Scaling

As the parallel story to Deltarune, it and Undertale have a ton of similarities. Not only is Deltarune harder to grasp fully on its own without at least some knowledge of Undertale, the two games reference each other frequently. Clam Girl referenced Susie and Deltarune as a game (only on the Switch though) a few weeks before it was even released. And obviously since Deltarune came out far after Undertale, it has its own fair share of references to our favorite underground story. Of course, it should also go without saying, Deltarune’s very heavy connections with Gaster and the Goner people should be more than enough to prove that Undertale and Deltarune are very much connected in a LOT of ways, more than just a couple of references.

As for the verses scaling to one another, that’s trickier to explain. Disregarding both verses’ higher cosmic end stats, Undertale is pretty comparable, so scaling to Undertale specifically wouldn’t really affect the verdict all too much. However there is one feat from the Undertale verse worth bringing up:

Papyrus’s Stupid Stinky Smelly FTL Sticker Feat (and really all the other sticker feats)

No I don’t care that it won’t affect the scaling. No I don’t care that it’s from an animated sticker pack. I’m going to talk about it. This feat. We found it, gang. The next “this fucking guy” of the blog. Not only does this come from a likely non-canon animated sticker pack, the feat itself is pretty weird already, and it’s crazy it was even calculated to 2.4c to begin with. It’s Papyrus moving his arm in tandem with light, but like: 1. We don’t even know if that’s an actual beam of light, and 2. This is from a fucking likely non-canon animated sticker pack. The same sticker pack where Frisk becomes the fucking sun. I swear to god if I ever see someone argue Star Level base Frisk I WILL LITERALLY–

Outerversal Deltarune

So like, Outer Deltarune isn’t really viable, but just to talk about it here: the Dark Worlds are seen as lower by the Lightners, being just hypoverses. Assuming Outer is valid, Lightners traveling to Dark Worlds would be essentially infinitely making themselves weaker when within one. It just doesn’t make thematic sense for this to be the case at all, and although we suppose it could change with Deltarune’s future chapters, it isn’t worth fully taking into account here and now.

Infinite Speed Deltarune

Since Gerson literally has a duplication ability, assuming someone like Queen would too isn’t that far fetched. There’s pretty much nothing to imply that Queen or Gerson being in multiple places at once would be done through sheer speed. It’s likely just a simple power the two of them share.

Oogway

Various Kung Fu Panda Feats

Looking through Kung Fu Panda’s catalog, we’ve stumbled across some feats that should be addressed.

Do the Earth Shaker

When writing down his battle against Kai, Oogway stated that it “shook the Earth.” There’s two different lenses to view this statement through, and that’s either taking it literally or figuratively. Oogway, pretty consistently, never heavily boasts about any of his feats of wit or strength, and at the same time we see Kung Fu Panda reach similar levels of power in outside media. Because of that, it doesn’t typically matter if we take this statement literally or not. Using it to scale characters like Tai Lung to Small Country Level seems pretty dubious, but the fact that the language is never elaborated on makes it weird to take this feat fully into account. Overall it can easily be interpreted as just figurative language, but it can also be used as supporting evidence for higher arguments.

Silken Moon Touch’s Starry Sky

Hey Lois, remember that one time Po touched a guy after going nonverbal and created entire solar systems thousands of light years away? Well yeah, this did technically happen, and the move’s name having “moon” in it likely alludes to these stars. Shifu only stated that the original user of this “focused his chi to achieve great things”, and we know that this move doesn’t immediately turn it into night temporarily either since none of the cloud formations in the sky change after the move is used, the stars in the sky simply fade away as the sky changes. Though that’s really the only supporting evidence of these being real stars. Even beyond that, we don’t know how Po or anyone else would scale to the speed of the stars getting there. We don’t even know if they are real stars, it could just be a weird visual effect of the technique. Overall this is too vague to be fully used, and doesn’t even deserve a full argument against it like a certain other series’ maybe fake stars.

Ancient Masters Being Fast AF

Near the end of the Dragon Knight show, the Ancient Masters all flew up into the sky and towards the nearest star system. Since they seem to zoom past the stars all really quickly, this feat was calced to 38 Million times FTL. There’s nothing really wrong with this feat in specific, as the stars twinkle in the background after they fly away, implying that they are actually close by and that it’s not a perspective issue. And since Po has outsped one of these guys before, scaling to the speed shouldn’t be an issue. The only issue is that it can be seen as an outlier when comparing it to other MFTL+ feats in the series. We just debunked one (read above if you haven’t) and the only other MFTL+ feat (The Eternal Chord’s creation speed) comes from a cosmic force not comparable to any of the Ancient Masters, since the masters are basically just prehistoric warriors. As such, this will be taken as a high end.

Oogway’s Abilities (and Items)

Oogway is a very important part of Kung Fu Panda lore, but since he passed away in the very first movie, we hardly see him actually perform a lot of the techniques shown in this blog. It can be reasonable for someone to assume he wouldn’t know every single one, but the evidence points to Oogway knowing pretty much all of them with relative ease. For one, Oogway is literally the creator of kung fu, and since most of the moves shown were invented before he passed, he’s the character most likely to have known literally all of them. In fact, Oogway knew so many moves that he wrote down tons of scrolls in the Jade Palace containing directions on how to perform them. Po throughout the TV shows learning all these new techniques also makes sense, since after all, he is a rather new kung fu warrior at this point (at least in Legends of Awesomeness.) On top of that, we’ve seen kung fu masters like Shifu perfectly mimic moves just after seeing them, and of course Po has also shown this too with moves like the Golden Lotus Clap, so Oogway performing techniques at least similar to the ones shown in this blog via knowledge on one of the scrolls we haven’t seen before (or just through chi in general, really) isn’t too far fetched.

Though, there are some techniques we did omit. Like Invincible Thunder Kick and Stars of Destiny, since they’re only possible with outside equipment. Moves like Trunk Twist and Poison Fang, since they require body parts that Oogway doesn’t possess. And the Crushing Double Gong Technique and the Double Death Strike since those require two parties to make happen.

Also just to mention it here, we didn’t give Oogway all of the items in the Jade Palace since they were passed down to Shifu after Oogway’s death, and Oogway likely wouldn’t even have easy access to them in the first place.

Can Oogway Even Die?

Well, yes, obviously. But throughout KFP’s media there are different interpretations of how death even works in the franchise. Some people can even come back from death, with Oogway specifically being one. While Kai spent a while gathering chi trying to come back, and finally managed to escape with Oogway’s chi himself, it was more so that he teleported into the Mortal Realm. Since in Jindiao’s case it’s made pretty clear he broke the realm out of the pure strength and power he possessed from things like Po’s Hero’s Chi and the Wellspring. But with all of this, if Oogway can come back from dying basically instantly, then can the dude even die permanently? Well, yes! Although Kai is technically much weaker than Oogway, when Kai was overwhelmed in the Spirit Realm by the amount of chi Po sent into Kai’s body, he eventually died. So, yes! Spirit Warriors can permanently die, right?

Well, no. Kai came back in Kung Fu Panda 4, negating that entire point. Literally the ONLY WAY for that to be possible is that 1. Kai never actually died or 2. Kai just has some weird spiritual regeneration going on. If we’re going with 2, then it’s most definitely an overtime thing. If he could regenerate instantly then he would just come back and challenge Po again after his death in the Spirit Realm. Oogway would likely also be applicable to this, and this is also the fairest answer then just “uhh ermm Oogway can never die ever!” And also we don’t really know how fast this spiritual respawning is, so it can’t be counted on for a stalemate kind of win either.

Starting the fight, it would make sense for Oogway to be alive… but once that physical form is gone, he becomes a Spirit Warrior, able to return to the Mortal Realm at will. And since Oogway and Po are able to come back after death almost instantly, dying physically won’t be counted as an instant loss. Instead, if Oogway’s spirit or soul is destroyed, then that will be counted as a win for Gerson, since the uncounted regeneration likely takes a while.

Both

Cosmic Stuff

As you may have notice both Deltarune & Kung Fu Panda are shown to have a lot of crazy cosmic stuff in their franchises and we are going to explain the highest ends for both sides with first going over the arguments for why they are fair game for the debate and counterarguments where you may notice a few cracked shells here and there.

Dark World Scaling

A big contender for the most debated part of Deltarune in VS is whether or not certain characters (in this case, Gerson) scale to the Dark Worlds and Dark Fountains themselves. We know obviously that fountains create the Dark Worlds, and have contained various locations within them, but how do we know that the main cast can actually scale to the creation of these worlds as a whole?

Dark Worlds and Fountains are formed when an individual musters up enough determination, or, will, to stab their blade into the ground and open one up. We know the SOUL is the very culmination of one’s being, so Dark Worlds are likely born from the SOUL of a Lightner. Or at least, the person opening it. This is backed up by the fact that Queen and other Darkners like Spamton lack SOULs, especially since Queen stole Noelle to make one for her. Kris also uses the SOUL to close up Dark Fountains, meaning they likely scale to its power this way also. Kris even uses the SOUL to power up their own attacks, and given that opponents can tank hits from SOUL-powered attacks, this furthers the point that they would be able to be compared to the SOUL, and since it can seal up Dark Fountains, can therefore be compared to the Dark Worlds.

How High Does the Dark World Scale?

So since we know the SOUL can scale to the Dark Worlds, we now have to figure out how big these worlds can be. Let’s discuss.

City Level

City Level is the easiest and most blatant place to put Dark Worlds at. There’s nothing really refuting this point, as Cyber World is directly stated to be a city, and because it’s literally ruled by a Queen, and has a bunch of citizens in it, means that there’s a genuine society of people that exist within the Dark World.

Planet Level

Now there’s Planet Level coming from the moon that Noelle ponders on. And yeah, a moon isn’t a planet, but the power one would have to have to make a moon inside a world or pocket dimension comes out to around Planet Level so… yeah. Points refuting this come from the fact that the moon is shaped like a baseball, and therefore wouldn’t be comparable to a real moon. But the reason it has the appearance of one, is because of Dess and the fact that Noelle wants to see her again. Since the Dark Fountain creator can influence how the world looks like, we can use this to explain this weird phenomenon. Dess said she’d take Noelle somewhere with shining lights, and as is confirmed from Gerson’s speech, that want definitely influenced the Cyber World. Now this baseball stuff can also be explained through Dess, as she has been described with a baseball bat and even a wiffle bat before, which influenced not only the baseball moon but also Queen using a baseball in her final attack. It would be weird to assume that the baseball moon isn’t an actual moon, since the city is a real city, so now let’s move on.

Star Level

Now Star Level comes from the various statements from Deltarune implying there’s a day and night cycle, and therefore a sun. Not only do people like Elnina and Lanino show knowledge of what a sun even is, Elnina later goes on to say she’s experienced both a day and night time in her life. Dialogue from Seam even shows that days pass like typical days and nights in real life. And yes, Seam even mentions that the sun “goes down” eventually. It’s very obvious that a sun and moon do exist within the Dark Worlds to signify days passing. You could say that time passes differently while in Dark Worlds, but this wouldn’t disprove there being any celestial bodies, just that they may move slower than what we’re used to.

Multi-Solar System Level

Deltarune, beyond its base Star Level arguments, have shown starry skies plenty of times, enough for it to be consistent. These all show no reasons to not be real stars, and the Star Level reliability arguments can also apply here.

MFTL+

The MFTL+ speeds come from the speeds that the initial darkness creates the Dark Worlds at. Scaling to the speeds of the darkness is pretty easy and even consistent, as Kris, Susie, and Ralsei can pilot a piano and even physically climb away from the same kind of darkness.

Dark World Scaling Counterarguments

While scaling to the Dark Worlds could be seen as consistent, there’s various counterarguments against the Dark World’s celestial bodies being real or not, even the SOUL scaling to the Dark Worlds in general, so let’s get into it.

Are Those Stars Real?

So are the stars we see in the Dark World real? Well, the “stars” we see during the Gerson fight grow and shrink in size unlike real stars. While it’s true that no other stars in the game do this, these clearly aren’t special stars that are any different either. They even look the exact same as some of the other stars in Deltarune too, furthering those stars also not being real.

There’s also a few brief mentions of a day-night cycle here and there, but we quite literally never see something like it in-game. The argument that time is just slower within Dark Worlds could work, but it just seems too convenient. So, there’s a day to night cycle but we somehow just miss it each time we’re in there? Most Darkners would likely have Light World knowledge anyways, since 99% of them are manifestations of Light World objects, meaning they’d just naturally know how days and time work in the Light World.

In general though, we really just need more lore to fully analyze what’s going on here, making buying it at all seem very dubious to some, especially with the point Deltarune is at currently. So, how can we try to debunk this with little lore at our disposal? Well, when you’re in need of Deltarune lore there’s only one place to turn to… Undertale! Now of course keep in mind that Undertale and Deltarune are separate stories at the very least, but this is just simply just worth noting and hasn’t been stated frequently enough before.

Undertale’s Waterfall area has shown stars before like in the umbrella scene with Monster Kid, and in the Underground it’s repeated by the Echo Flowers that the stars we see in the night sky, specifically in Waterfall, are “sparkling stones on the ceiling”, with even one of the speakers to the Echo Flowers saying they wish to “see the real stars someday”. Obviously, older monsters who remember what the surface world was like would remember what real stars look like, (for example, sans’s explanation of the sun to Papyrus) so very clearly these aren’t real stars. Now, what’s the kicker relating this back to Deltarune? Simply, the stars in Deltarune look pretty much exactly alike to the ones in Waterfall. While they aren’t the same exact sprites, they’re that same diamond-like shape that the fake stars are in Waterfall. It’s such a specific stylistic choice that it’s hard to ignore, but again, this does require some leniency with the two games. And even with the star comparisons, Cyber World technically has different looking stars during this part, and so does this Dark Sanctuary part, though they could just be zoomed out really far or not even stars entirely, but either way there’s still inconsistencies. Anyways, this is getting kinda diminutive and honestly a little ridiculous.

Scaling to the SOUL / Dark Worlds

Scaling to the SOUL in general to scale to the Dark Worlds can be seen as a bit iffy. Sure, the SOUL is implied to be the source of how Dark Fountains can be generated, but this is highly debatable since we’ve seen Kris create a Dark Fountain when removing the SOUL from their body. Not only that but the SOUL sealing Dark Fountains is never really implied to translate to its own physical power, and there’s no reason that it should. The fact it can boost party members also implies that it’s just pure SOUL magic/hax and doesn’t mean equating the power of a Dark Fountain as a whole.

Not Big Enough

All of Deltarune’s Dark World scaling arguments hinge on Deltarune’s Dark Worlds having non-euclidean geometry. Essentially, something being bigger on the inside than it is on the outside. However, this can be refuted by the fact that Dark Worlds have clear borders within them. We see the doors that lead to the Dark Worlds, and given those borders they can’t fit things like moons or a star in between them (since stars are larger than Earth and all), it’s likely those aren’t real celestial bodies.

MFTL+ Piano??

(this only has a visual because this part was reformatted from the Deltarune feats BTV, and I didn’t want it to go unused, so, oops!) - Dash Fish

Oh look what we got here, another View Count like feat...freaking great. Buying this feat is ultimately determined by your interpretation of the Dark Worlds as a whole. We never really see how a Dark World initially forms, it could just appear into existence without movement. It could also appear out of existence once a fountain is sealed, it really just depends. Unless we ever see a Dark World fade into existence from the inside somehow, this feat will continue to be debatable and heavily up to interpretation, making its usability and feats like it unreliable. Also worth noting though, we can’t exactly be sure if the darkness from Susie’s Dark World is even the same darkness, since it weirdly just stops at the end of the piano section? Just a bit of an oddity, I suppose.

Oh then there’s also that high end assuming it’s a universe. Sure, the Dark Worlds very well could be. But like. We don’t even know if those stars are real stars so. Uh yeah let’s move on.

Tree / Chord / Wellspring Scaling

So yeah… this scaling chain. In terms of Oogway scaling to the Tree, Chord, or Wellspring, they each need have their own dedicated explanations, but before we get to that I think it’s best to spell out how KFP can even scale this high to begin with, to at least those who may currently believe otherwise.

Claiming that KFP can’t reach these heights as a verse, at least on its own, is a bit weird in the context of this blog. If we were only analyzing the films and short films, sure. The Universal level stuff doesn’t really come into play that much. But with the shows (and honestly most of the post-chi era of KFP as a series) significantly changes this. And you can’t use the standards of just the films to judge the entire verse as a whole, and universe-bending stuff isn’t even that new to the series. Oogway’s mystic connections with the universe and chi in general should sort of prove that. In an episode of Legends of Awesomeness, Po even straight up recreated the entire Eternal Chord on his own by singing in harmony with the rest of them, stopping the destruction of LITERALLY the entire universe. And we’ll get to that example fully very soon. 

So yeah, KFP as a series consistently reaches the level of Universal, like, several times, and regardless of your thoughts on Oogway scaling to any of the chi-based substances, claiming KFP can’t be justified in the Universal ranges of power just simply isn’t true… NOW, let’s see how Oogway can scale to all of that, ranging from least likely to most likely.

Shuyong Tree 

The Shuyong Tree is the tree of eternity, having existed before time started and will continue to exist after it ends. Its fruits can create time and control destiny as a whole, and the Tree can see over all of spacetime even for events that haven’t happened yet. Since the Tree can create spacetime with its seeds alone, scaling to this kind of power would absolutely warrant Universal to Universal+ levels of strength. But in what instances has anyone shown the ability to scale to this?

Scaling directly to the Tree could come from the fact that Po and Fenghuang were able to body the Shuyong guardians very easily, who are the ones that protect the Shuyong Tree in the first place. Like, what’s the point of even having two huge guards if they’re going to be super easy to defeat, unless of course they’re imbued with some kind of power the Shuyong Tree is giving them. Given that the Shuyong Tree, if destroyed, would probably bring about the end of time, the Tree would probably want the best guardians for itself, right? Of course this is highly debatable and is very speculative compared to the other substances, with not a lot to back it up. But it’s at least worth mentioning.

There’s also the fact that the Shuyong Tree has existed before time itself, and will exist after it ends, implying being unbound from the flow of linear time in general (or possibly even some kind of irrelevant speeds?) But that’s hard to call. We don’t even really know if that would imply immeasurable speeds, and even then this feels like something specifically tailored to the Shuyong Tree’s essence as a being rather than something Po or Oogway could potentially scale to. While yes, both Po and Fenghuang could technically move around in a space where time didn’t exist, Po or Fenghuang are never seen outside of this moving around at infinite speeds, and it’s just easier to assume that both Po and Fenghuang could have a limited resistance to things like time stop, as both Po and Fenghuang remembered certain events when sent back in time. As powerful as both Oogway and Po are, they still are bound by time as a concept.

So yeah, scaling to the Shuyong Tree directly isn’t that reliable.

Wellspring

The Wellspring. Described as quite literally the entire source of all chi in the Kung Fu Panda verse as a whole, the source of all LIGHT in the universe in general, and similarly to the Shuyong Tree will exist long after humanity (or, animal-manity?) has perished. But if the Wellspring contains all the current chi in the universe, and Oogway only has his chi to pull from, then how could he possibly scale?

At a certain point in time, Jindiao had complete control over the entirety of the Wellspring, having absorbed its entire power. How much power exactly? Well, the Wellspring has been stated by Zhizhu (the guardian of the Wellspring) to contain the chi to literally every living thing. This would include Po’s chi, Shifu’s chi, literally every living thing’s life force comes from within the Wellspring. While Po struggled to make a dent in Jindiao before, Po eventually fought on-par in the Spirit Realm with Jindiao in their dragon forms, and Po later even surpassed him. Because of Jindiao being amped up by the Wellspring, his feats while in this more powerful form can be applied to how powerful the Wellspring is just, in general.

Jindiao after absorbing the Wellspring was stated to be the only person able to physically escape the Spirit Realm before, quite literally having overpowered it completely as a realm. (Kai’s experience with breaking out of the Spirit Realm did happen slightly differently, being more teleportation-based, and given they say it's the first time anyone's ever escaped it, they likely mean it through sheer power alone.) So if we now know that Jindiao in this state was more powerful than the Spirit Realm, then how powerful is the Spirit Realm?

In the official KFP artbook, it's stated that the Spirit Realm is a different level of existence or reality, and while it’s only mentioned twice, it at least means its own dimension or universe, and overpowering it would imply Universal levels of strength. The size of the Spirit Realm though, is debatable. While it has been stated to be endless, or having “no true borders”, which can be interpreted as an infinitely-sized universe, meaning now High Universal instead of just regular ol’ Universal. And Oogway would scale since Jindiao absorbed Po’s Hero's Chi, and with that power could also absorb the Wellspring. Given that Po’s Hero’s Chi gave Jindiao the power he needed for the absorption to happen, Oogway's Hero's Chi should be no different.

Now, if chi is found in every living thing, and the Wellspring contains all the chi in the universe, and Oogway has comparable power to the Wellspring with the Hero’s Chi, then does that mean he could scale to the Shuyong Tree this way? Since, the Shuyong Tree is still a tree and all, and even has a voice meaning it’s clearly alive, and its chi would theoretically also be stored in the Wellspring right? While it’s likely this scaling is fine, that point is ultimately up to interpretation. The Shuyong Tree is never technically stated to have chi, but it does fit the terminology for something having it, but it’s also on a separate plane of existence that could possibly outlive chi and life as a concept, so yeah. We won’t fully claim it here, but it is definitely likely. It’s just that scaling to the Shuyong Tree directly can be seen as rather dubious.

Eternal Chord

As explained by Lun, the Eternal Chord is referred to as five elemental tones that played in harmony with one another and created the universe. Eventually the Anti-Chord was brought about, created by the Yaoguai, and tried to bring darkness back to the universe and destroy it. 

Oogway scaling to this comes from the fact that both Po and Lun can survive explosions from the Eternal Chord instruments, with Lun being able to withstand it better than Po somehow, meaning that Oogway scaling to this is extremely likely. However, you could argue that the elemental tones playing together and creating the universe wouldn’t warrant anything in terms of power, and is just simply a very specific ability they all have, since the Chord instruments don’t really do much else but play music and start universes. But this can also be argued against, since the specific language that’s used by Lun was that the Chord was needed to “battle the evil Yaoguai”, implying that they fought back with some kind of physical power. Even re-analyzing the parts where Lun and Po withstand attacks from it, Lun says “it could destroy you!” to Po, and both feel physically exhausted after, so signs point to the Chord instruments (of which Oogway scales to) having the power to physically recreate the universe all together.

Though, with this logic, the same can be applied to scaling Oogway to the Tianshang Weapons. We only scaled him to a fourth of their total power since we’ve only seen Po and such withstand attacks from only one or two and not all of them together, so it’s only natural to assume that the same would be applied here. If five elemental tones played from the Wu-Di instruments, and Po only physically resisted attacks from one of the instruments, wouldn’t that mean Oogway would only be like, what, 1/5 Universal? Well, assumedly yes, but near the end of the Eternal Chord arc, Po not only resists the power of the current four that are present, even playing the same instrument that harmed him before (having grown stronger), but also straight up sings in harmony with the rest of them to recreate the universe as a whole, like with the original instance of the elemental tones.

As for scaling to the Eternal Chord’s speed, that’s pretty easy. Throughout the Eternal Chord episode Po and Lun both physically dodge a lot of sound-based attacks from the Anti-Chord, which were meant to keep up with and battle the Wu Di instruments so assuming they’d be travelling at a similar speed is fair to say. (Also some of the Anti-Chord members straight up dodge attacks from one of Lun’s instruments anyways.)

So, with all of this logic, fully assuming Universal Po / Oogway from scaling to the Eternal Chord isn’t that crazy, and isn’t even fully an outlier either with Po going up against a Wellspring-amped Jindiao, who could overpower the entirety of the Spirit Realm.

Tree / Chord / Wellspring Scaling Counterarguments

Now sure, KFP has its Uni arguments, but how reliable really are they? And what counterarguments can be made against them? Well, KFP as a verse being put at Universal isn’t the issue, as the universe itself was clearly being restarted and whatnot, like verbatim, and doesn’t suffer from a “lack of lore” issue like with DR’s cosmic high ends. We clearly know that Universal levels of strength exist within KFP’s verse. The issue instead lies with how Oogway can fully scale to it all, and therefore, be fully considered. Though, there are at least some contingencies to be tackled on KFP’s Universal status. So let’s get into it.

Jindiao’s Spirit Realm Overpowering

So yes, Jindiao had to overpower the entire Spirit Realm in order to escape it. He even absorbed the entirety of it with the Hero’s Chi and fought on-par with Po later on. Though, Jindiao overpowering the Spirit Realm is a bit vague on how it's stated. Blue Dragon only states it would require a “greater power than the Spirit Realm”, but what does this mean exactly? You could presume that it means overpowering the Spirit Realm’s entirety, but it’s hard to grasp how much that “entirety” is at all. We know it’s referred to as a different reality, but at what size? It’s stated to be “endless”, but we don’t actually know if that means infinite or not, as “no true borders” can also mean something other than just simply infinite. Instead of being endless as in never-ending, it could also be endless in the same way a ring is endless. Like how if you walk around an entire ring, you’ll just end up back at where you started. Still endless, just in a different sense. And the Spirit Realm could be the same way. Now, is there any evidence to support this viewpoint? Why yes, there is, as when the current Four Constellations tried to escape the Spirit Realm, they quite literally just went in circles trying to get out of it without succeeding. This weird dimensional displacement is consistent throughout the KFP series, and we never really get a true measure on how large the Spirit Realm is. Adding onto that, if we take the artbook statements as literal, meaning there isn’t a concept of time in the Spirit Realm, meaning there isn't spacetime and therefore not a universe to affect or destroy.

Oogway scaling is another thing, as Jindiao needed Po’s Hero’s Chi to fully absorb the power of the Wellspring, and Po later beat Jindiao in this amped-up state of Wellspring + Hero’s Chi power, meaning Oogway fully would be comparable right? Well, not so much. Po beat Jindiao in a completely different dragon form that we don’t really see him utilize again, meaning Po (or Oogway) scaling to this level of power all the time is questionable. We don’t even know how much power exactly Jindiao held at the time, sure he had the Hero’s Chi and Wellspring’s chi within him, which is a lotta damn chi, but putting level like Universal onto him when we can’t even pinpoint the size or power of one of the substances he absorbed makes this seem rather inconsistent to fully call.

"Higher Level of Existence"

In the art book the Spirit Realm was referred to as a “new level of existence”, so that should imply that there is some kind of higher quality of the realm, which could make sense with how weird the Spirit Realm operates, right? Well the problems with it is that whenever the strangeness of the Spirit Realm is portrayed it’s not as some higher understanding, it’s portrayed as something that has to do with the self, and the statement itself is a singular vague sentence in an art book. Take the statement saying that the Spirit Realm is "defined by those within it", coming straight from White Tiger himself.

Eternal Chord

Po surviving the blasts from one of the Wu Di instruments could be seen as impressive, but we have to remember Po & co. have been heavily wounded by stuff far less than this. Like Shifu, being comparable to Lun (who took a blast from one of the Wu Di instruments) in physicality since they’re both tiny old men, once broke every bone in his entire body from a water tower falling on him. And this feat was quite literally calculated to Wall Level. If someone like Shifu can take a blast from a seemingly universally-powerful instrument, but then break literally every bone in his body from a Wall Level feat, it likely isn’t that powerful in actuality. At least on its own.

Then there’s scaling to the speed of the Eternal Chord, which can be easy to refute. While yes, Lun and Po have reacted to Anti-Chord instruments before, we don’t know if these are exactly the instruments that fought against the Eternal Chord. Heck, we don’t even know if it was another group of instruments which fought back against the Chord. It’s likely, but these are probably just normal soundwaves Po and Lun are dodging. This is backed up especially by the fact that Po and Tigress failed to react to a beam of light from Ding’s spirit orbs before, which is basically an anti-feat against any FTL and above KFP arguments. Relativistic is fine and consistent but MFTL+ can be seen as a pretty big outlier for anyone in the verse.

Hero’s Chi Scaling

And finally for all of them, pretty much all the chi-based substances scaling heavily relies on Oogway being the former carrier of Po’s Hero’s Chi to be comparable. But that’s the thing, no matter the Hero’s Chi, it’s all technically different people wielding it in different ways and scales of power. Just because Oogway wielded it once shouldn’t mean he’d be comparable for every single feat of a Hero’s Chi user. After all, Po is Oogway’s successor. Po should be succeeding him, surpassing him a lot of the time.

MSS Deltarune & Uni Kung Fu Panda Conclusion

So, now the fact that we’ve built up and tore down both combatants’ cosmic high ends, are we actually gonna buy either of them? Well, that’s the thing. We’ve discovered you can make pretty good arguments for either end, but you can make pretty good counterarguments for either end as well, making them just as believable or dubious as one another. Obviously, one end does scale higher than the other, but both of these "cosmic ends" will be considered in the verdicts when talking about stats. Given how debatable they are to both in the first place, it’s only fair, so considering the two is the proper approach here. Either of the cosmic ends did not affect where either side put Gerson or Oogway, nor will these be used as an "end all be all" for the final verdict on each side, as this fight is determined by a lot more than just physicality alone.

Tributes


Mediocre Productions

Necrostar

Verdicts

Due to how rough this matchup’s debate became and how a lot of their stats, abilities, and other weird factors have a lot of interpretative views behind them, this’ll be separated into a team verdict in favor of both opponents. But of course, the Final Tally at the end will determine the overall winner. With that being said, let’s compare their Body, Mind, and Spirit to find out who will come out on top!

Team Gerson

Body
Power, Durability, and Speed

Let’s start with speed, discussing power last will make sense in a second. Gerson on his own can get from 34 m/s to Mach 1.35, scaling to the speed at which he threw his hammer. Comparing that to Oogway on his own, he can catch Kai’s high speed blade with his eyes closed, coming up around Mach 1.48. While Oogway has the slightest edge here, it’s small enough to call it roughly a tie. However things change vastly when we look at scaling.

On the low and mid ends, Gerson scales to various feats from the Delta Warriors and Darkners. Take the Queen tossing that baseball so fast it caught fire at Mach 5 or Tenna moving in tandem with lightning at Mach 6954. That’s around Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic. Oogway though can scale to similar things, like Po running so fast his hand caught fire, again at Mach 5, or Crane returning to the valley at Mach 1426 - 5704. Again, that’s around Hypersonic to Massively Hypersonic, with Gerson taking the edge. However that rough balance shifts pretty quickly with Gerson scaling to many Relativistic and lightspeed feats like Kris dodging lasers at 0.73c or Jackenstein evading light from the SOUL at 2.47c. The highest Oogway can get to that is Mantis reacting to light before it reaches him, at 0.07c - 0.23c, reaching Sub-Relative and Relativistic speeds. Really great for a Galapagos tortoise, but not good enough to beat our hammering Darkner. Even bringing the cosmic ends into it, the Dark Fountains can create Dark Worlds at 10 Million c to 244 Quadrillion c, while the Eternal Chord can get from 154 Quadrillion to 2 Quintillion times FTL by reshaping the universe. The Dark Worlds’ high end would beat Oogway’s, but Oogway’s high end would beat Gerson’s, though it’s hard to look at the cosmic ends as the final for this part, especially since we have no idea if the Dark Worlds are actually a universe, putting Gerson at a millions c disadvantage. Though even then Oogway himself scaling to that speed at all is questionable. A good tie-breaker would be the fact that Gerson is faster on the more reliable ends, and just shown to be a lot more mobile and agile in general. In his fight against Susie he’s zipping and teleporting around the screen, something Oogway’s usually stable self is never shown doing.

In general, it’s close enough to call it a tie, but with Gerson taking the more reliable (non-cosmic) high end here, as well as having more consistent mobility, we can say Gerson has the more solid and reliable edge in speed overall.

Now, power and durability. Checking power without scaling, Gerson can only scale to the KE of throwing his hammer at 1.8 Megajoules to 0.07 Tons of TNT, being Wall to Small Building Level. Oogway on the other hand rapidly cleared a fog bank, yielding 2.27 to 37.98 Megatons of TNT, being Small City to City Level. Clearly that blows Gerson out of the water, with Oogway being millions of times stronger. And we could look at their non-scaling durability feats but... Gerson doesn’t have anything calculable in terms of durability, so let’s carry on to scaling.

Gerson at his low ends can scale to Miss Mizzle creating large water at 2.5 Tons of TNT, or Large Building Level. Scaling Oogway to Tigress, who has survived blasts from Shen’s cannons worth 9.12 Tons of TNT, or Large Building Level+. Oogway takes a pretty significant advantage here of 6.62 Tons of TNT more than Gerson, but see if that changes with mid ends. Gerson scales again to Miss Mizzle’s storm creation at 8.71 Megatons of TNT, or City Level. Oogway scaling to the Storm Wheels creating, y’know, a storm, would be 164.98 Megatons of TNT, or Mountain Level. With Oogway’s storm calc getting higher into Mountain Level, it’s pretty clear Oogway also takes mid ends. But what about their absolute highest ends without getting into cosmic stuff? Gerson’s highest non-cosmic end is with the KE of Shuttah’s projectiles, being 2.4 Gigatons of TNT, or Large Mountain Level. Oogway can scale to 1 of the Tianshang Weapons’ Earth-splitting power of 3.38 Yottatons of TNT, or Planet Level. Yeah, Oogway definitely takes all the ends here. 

Even with cosmic scaling, it’s the Multi-Solar System Dark Worlds against the Universal to Universal+ Wellspring. Again, pretty clearly not close. Even IF you’re low-balling the Wellspring with its 20.82 TenaFoe end, being Multi-Galaxy, it naturally isn’t enough for Gerson to cross the distance with the Dark Worlds being 16.88 ExaFoe at maximum. For the non-math nerds out there, that’s Gerson’s end having 18 zeros after the number 10 VS Oogway’s end having 30 zeros after the number 10. So… yeah. No matter which way you slice it, Gerson is always going to have a hard time fully putting a dent in Oogway. So, easy dub for the jade turtle, right? Not so much.

With Gerson’s SOUL manipulation, attacking Oogway’s spirit rather than his physical body, him being however many times durable doesn’t really matter. It could matter for Gerson in some cases, as he’d still have to look out for Oogway’s hits, but with Gerson being consistently faster that’s gonna be hard for Oogway to do. Though it won’t be long before Oogway starts realizing his SOUL is being targeted, Gerson would still be negating Oogway’s high durability regardless. And like we stated in the BTVs, Oogway receiving enough spiritual damage will result in a loss for him, and that’s absolutely something Gerson is capable of doing.

With Gerson being consistently faster, and having the ability to completely negate Oogway’s vastly higher durability, means that Gerson would take Body overall.

Mind

Skill and Experience

Let’s break down both of their skill and experience. Starting with Gerson, he’s a pretty studious guy. He’s been a smith, a teacher, an author, and according to his son was a “brave man, brilliant, and sharp.” In battle, we’ve seen him be proficient with the usage of various hammers and shells, using his knowledge of weaponry from his days of smithing to his advantage. He even plays dirty sometimes, and steals your items to “make it fair”. Sneaky bastard!

With Oogway, he’s fought in at least one war, defeated numerous foes that have terrorized China several times over, invented probably hundreds of kung fu techniques, taught kung fu to many students across China, and even invented kung fu himself. He doesn’t play dirty unlike a certain someone. He tries to take his opponent out in usually the most non-destructive way possible, viewing martial arts as a way to resolve conflict rather than escalate it.

So, how do they stack up? Well, yeah. It isn’t really close. Gerson definitely shows more knowledge of blunt force weaponry, and getting the chance to steal Oogway’s several staffs would probably help out a little, but none of that stacks up to what we’ve seen Oogway do. Taking on whole monsters like Ke-Pa and Kai that have terrorized China, and straight up inventing the most influential martial art in history? Yeah, it sadly isn’t a competition.

Sure, Gerson’s sly SOUL-based battle strategies may throw Oogway for a loop at first, but it’s nothing Oogway can’t handle given his overwhelming experience and skill. Oogway takes Mind overall.

Spirit

Arsenal and Abilities

Starting with arsenal, Gerson carries some great things to help him out in combat. The hammers that he spams alongside the koopa shells that he also spams work really great in tandem with the rest of his abilities. Shifting the perspective of the Battle Box with his hammers would Gerson put Oogway into whatever position he wants, and the koopa shells are just the icing on the cake for more annoyance and could be hard for Oogway to keep up with. Then there’s of course, THE HAMMER OF JUSTICE! Gerson uses this to deflect projectiles, and is so powerful that it can heavily weaken a Titan’s shield. Worth noting as well is that when Gerson threw this, he seemingly just manifested it back into his possession instantaneously. Weird. Then there’s the part of his arsenal that Gerson’s a lot less likely to use. Dark Candies are great for support, helping to keep his health up if it gets too low, and similar could be said for his shopkeep items that can help boost attack, defense, magic, and HP. Oh and his cane kinda does nothing.

Oogway’s arsenal mostly consists of staffs. His wooden peach tree staff that can manipulate the wind (or just petals, either way it’s not too notable), his two staffs from his Kai backstory that are probably just better in combat, and of course his Staff of Wisdom. This allows for easy access for Oogway between the Spirit and Mortal Realms, allows him to summon other Spirit Warriors, and even create chi energy projectiles. There’s also the owl cage and the Peach Tree, one is used for trapping owls and the other can potentially transmutate nearby targets into different animals, and also empower Oogway from faraway distances.

So, how do they compare? In terms of straight up combative ability with their weaponry, Oogway like we stated is more skilled with his staffs but Gerson just has a better arsenal suited for combative scenarios. With the Hammer of Justice actually being able to deal more damage than what we ever see the Staff of Wisdom do, it's clear that Gerson’s versatility pays off here. Not only that, but he had supplemental support items that boost his attack and defense, meanwhile Oogway doesn’t have anything like that, really. Oogway summoning someone else to help him out mid-battle with the Staff of Wisdom is pretty iffy, since we’ve never seen anyone else use the Staff of Wisdom like that before. The owl cage and Peach Tree are both pretty situationally locked to the Valley of Peace, and even then likely wouldn’t affect Gerson much if somehow used. This isn’t even mentioning the actual armor Gerson wears where Oogway is pretty much naked.

Gerson easily has much more destructive and versatile equipment. Arsenal goes to Gerson. But both of their arsenals are hardly enough to take the Spirit category completely.

Now, for the long part. Their abilities. Gerson can teleport and remain invisible for quite a long while, duplicate himself multiple times over, interact with the fourth wall to put Oogway in tight positions, fire projectiles at his soul, deflect projectiles, and fire the green half of the Dual Buster which was powerful enough with its other half to break the Titan’s shield off completely.

Oogway on the other hand can travel through dimensions, become as light as a feather, paralyze Gerson with nerve attacks, send him to the Spirit Realm with the Wuxi Finger Hold, blind him with the Golden Lotus Clap, levitate and fly, shield himself, freeze things in time, or even straight up gouge Gerson’s eyes out if he feels like it. And that’s not even mentioning chi.

So, it seems Oogway is a lot more versatile right? Well, let’s see how Gerson can actually deal with a few of these. For starters, there’s a few techniques Oogway knows that straight up wouldn’t work on Gerson. For one, the Wuxi Finger Hold. Kai makes it pretty clear that it only works directly on mortals, and Gerson is in a weird space like Kai where he’s kind of both dead and alive. Being reborn as a Darkner means that he’s dead, but he was also alive at one point, but still technically wouldn’t be considered a “mortal”, at least in the traditional sense. You might be able to make an argument for other Darkners being mortal, but Gerson’s a special case. Next up, any kind of nerve attacks also wouldn’t work against Gerson for one simple reason. His armor! When Tai Lung used his pressure point techniques against Po, it was ineffective because he was too big, implying that nerve attacks always target the deeper skin tissue. Gerson’s armor would pretty easily protect against this, and yeah we never see something like this happen in KFP canon but like all of the Furious Five never wear any armor or anything, so it makes sense as to why. Because of his armor again, the Five-Fingered Blast Punch would also be null, at least for one turn since it explodes things from the inside out. Next on the list is kind of just every energy-based projectile that Oogway has access to, since Gerson can easily reflect it right back at him. This would include any chi-based energy projection, the Thundering Wind Hammer, Mongolian Fireball, Spears of Fire, and that Flying Ring of Energy. Next we can knock off our list are all the close-range techniques Oogway can do. Since we’ve determined Gerson as consistently faster, and also just due to the fact he can teleport away at any time, close-up moves wouldn’t do the trick like they usually would. This would be the Fluttering Finger Mindslip, Five-Fingered Blast Punch again, and even the Silken Moon Touch too, though that usually requires heavy setup anyways. Gerson’s teleportation could theoretically be used to teleport inside the Shielding Spell as well, but we’ve never seen Gerson phase through walls before so we won’t count it officially. Regardless, a LOT of Oogway’s techniques can be countered by Gerson in a lot of ways, and this isn’t even talking about chi. So let’s do that! 

Chi most notably can heal people, but we’ve only seen it used to heal others but the self. It makes sense since chi is life force, and you can’t use your own life force to heal yourself, meaning Gerson has better healing with things like the Dark Candies. Chi has also been shown to teleport things into the Spirit Realm and even seal enemies away, but both of these are pretty situational as we’ve only seen them used on vases and demons respectively. If chi could just BFR anyone into the Spirit Realm, the Wuxi Finger Hold wouldn’t exist. If anything this would just be used to BFR Gerson’s items and that’s it. Then there comes the two things chi can do that would really mess Gerson up, being Soul Manipulation and Petrification. Trying to pry Gerson’s soul out of his body would be pretty bad… if he had one. It’s unclear whether or not Darkner’s actually have SOULs to begin with, but even if Gerson did, it’s shown that the Soul Manipulation chi power took a while against Jindiao, which Gerson could just very easily teleport out of, or even potentially fight without his SOUL regardless. Again, all this considering he still has one. Gerson has much better Soul Manipulation anyways, kind of making this a moot point. Then there’s petrification. Technically, this is a subcategory of transmutation, so he's able to resist it right? Well, not so much. Darkners actively show to be vulnerable to this if they enter another Dark World they’re incompatible with. They eventually will turn to stone, and die. Meaning that no… Gerson wouldn’t resist petrification, just all other kinds of transmutation.

So, while Oogway has a MUCH larger powerset that would trump anything Gerson could do normally, Gerson also has ways to avoid or straight up not be affected by things Oogway can do. Not only that, but Gerson’s Soul Manipulation helps close such a massive weakness that he would’ve had otherwise, really helping him keep up with Oogway here. Oogway still definitely has a lot to work with though, and ways to incapacitate Gerson completely. 

With Oogway’s versatility against Gerson’s counters, abilities and Spirit overall is safe to call a tie.

Recap

While it’s a close as hell fight, and both combatants aren’t without their advantages, Gerson takes this more often than not with his ways to negate Oogway’s usually unbeatable defenses. Oogway can come back from the Spirit Realm pretty easily, but Gerson’s method of attacking the spirit directly and having various counter-measures to Oogway's techniques can ensure him the win in this fight.

Team Oogway

Body

Power, Durability, and Speed

When comparing their raw power to each other, it becomes pretty easy to see who takes the advantage. First looking at their direct feats: Gerson can get up to 0.0765 tons of TNT by throwing his hammer, while Oogway dispersing a fog bank can get up to 37.98 megatons of TNT. A very clear advantage for Oogway, but through scaling, both can get way higher. With Gerson scaling to Miss Mizzle’s rain storms getting up to 8.71 megatons of TNT, closing the gap with Oogway’s fog bank feat significantly, and Shuttah’s attacks can reach up to 2.4 Gigatons of TNT which surpasses it. However, Oogway pulls ahead again by scaling to the Tianshang Weapons, which get up to 13.55 Yottatons of TNT, and even if he only scales to one of the weapons that’s still 3.38 Yottatons of TNT. This isn’t without even mentioning Oogway’s technique Iron Heart, which boosts his strength a thousand times more than usual, making this gap in power even more apparent.

But then there are the cosmic arguments for both: the Dark Fountains vs the Wellspring.

The Dark Fountains at best can get up to 16.88 ExaFoe containing entire stars inside of the Dark Worlds they maintain, but the Wellspring being the source of all light in the universe is worth 20.82 TenaFoe. Since it’s also the source of all chi means it also contains the chi of other important forces like the Shuyong Tree and Eternal Chord which would put the wellspring at Universal to Universal+.

Overall, regardless of what end you look at for both, Oogway always has a significant advantage in strength and durability.

Speed, meanwhile, is a bit of a different story. Starting with direct feats again, Oogway was able to react to Kai’s blade, which reaches speeds up to mach 1.48. Gerson stealing Susie’s item gets to mach 1.31, a miniscule difference between the two, but that changes quickly when looking at what both can scale to. Oogway at best can scale to Mantis reacting to light, which gets about 23% lightspeed, meanwhile Gerson can scale to a multitude of feats surpassing that. Like lasers from the titan and zappers reaching 33% and 73% the speed of light respectively. Meanwhile, Jackenstein could evade the SOUL’s light, reaching 2.47 times the speed of light, a solid advantage for Gerson. Although there is that feat scaling to the Ancient Masters, being 38 Million times the speed of light, which could be considered an outlier depending on your perspective, but if taken into account Oogway blitzes Gerson. Then there's the separate cosmic ends.

The Dark Fountains can create Dark Worlds at 10 Million times lightspeed (to 244 Quadrillion times lightspeed if you wanna consider the Dark Worlds a universe), while the Eternal Chord can get from 154 Quadrillion to 2 Quintillion times lightspeed by reshaping the universe.

Overall depending on which feats you use, either could take the edge in speed. With their direct feats only, they're so close to each other that it’s basically a tie. Meanwhile with their consistent non-cosmic scaling, Gerson takes a solid edge, but using said cosmic scaling gives Oogway a massive advantage putting both at pretty even ground regardless.

With Oogway’s massive power and durability advantage, along with both turtles being borderline comparable in speed, Oogway takes the Body category overall.

Mind

Skill and Experience

Both of these two are known for their intense mentorship and skills beyond those around them, so let’s see who comes out on top in those aspects. Gerson is a teacher, a former blacksmith, and of course the Hammer of Justice himself. Oogway is not only also a teacher, but the grandmaster, the inventor of kung fu, inventor of various kung fu techniques, participated in several wars, fought many foes that have threatened all of China, mastered inner peace… yeah this is getting a bit comedic. We could go on but it’s pretty clear Oogway takes a MASSIVE advantage in both skill and experience here. Though it’s worth noting Gerson (and pretty much any Darkner) has a unique SOUL-based combat style Oogway could maybe find hard to counter at first, but that wouldn’t be enough to swell Oogway for long.

Very blatantly, Oogway is much more skilled, experienced, and intelligent in almost every way.

Spirit

Arsenal and Abilities

Let’s get the arsenal out of the way first. Gerson in his fight uses endless amounts of hammers, shells, and of course the main Hammer of Justice itself. He shows a lot of knowledge using everything at his disposal to make your fight against him very difficult. Using his knowledge of the Battle Box and projectile at the same time as using his mini hammers and shells are both great ways of confusing and tricking his opponent into various things. The Hammer of Justice even shattered an entire Titan’s shield! How powerful is that thing?

Oogway’s arsenal in comparison is a lot less impressive, at least in the comparable sense. Sure he has the better variety of close-range weaponry with multiple staffs to choose from, but pretty much nothing to enhance his chi techniques or anything. Oogway’s Staff of Wisdom is pretty notable though, as it can create projectiles of energy to throw at his opponents and even open a portal back into the Mortal Realm. Not that he can just do that himself without the staff, though. Supposedly he could also drag other Spirit Warriors into the Mortal Realm… but that’s not really how the staff works combatively.

So yeah, Gerson pretty clearly has a better suited arsenal for combat.

Ohhh boy, this next section. Gerson’s abilities are much more limited, and it doesn’t take more than a glance to see that Oogway’s much more versatile here, but it’s important to clarify the specific advantages rather than saying he would take this through sheer versatility. Let’s get into it.

First, there’s the abilities that Gerson straight up wouldn’t be affected by. The Wuxi Finger Hold likely wouldn’t work, due to Kai stating it only works on mortals. Theoretically Gerson could be seen mortal, but he’s sorta in a situation similar to Kai where he’s not quite dead but not quite alive either. Reborn, if you will. The Hero’s Chi transmutation would also be resisted, given other Darkners like Ralsei have transmuted themselves out of similar techniques. Nerve attacks would theoretically be possible on Gerson, but it would be hard for Oogway initially since there’s armor in the way of Gerson’s pressure points. It’s different than those pressure points just being blocked by clothes or something, since that’s genuine armor Gerson has on.

Now that those are out of the way, let’s see how much of a leg up Oogway’s techniques and such would have on Gerson if given the chance. There are attacks that could help against Gerson’s specific abilities. Both the Silken Moon Touch and the Yangtze Spleen Punch have been shown to deal heavy damage to multiple opponents all at once. The only thing bad about it is that the Moon Touch requires the setup of going silent beforehand, but the Spleen Punch is fine. Wings of Light and Levitation would help Oogway keep up with Gerson’s crazy mobility, as flying around everywhere quickly is pretty helpful. Albeit, not as helpful as Gerson’s teleportation, but still worth noting. Another Mystic Secret, Jin Tian’s Tempest, which makes the user shoot lightning bolts from their hands is specifically noted for being able to control and levitate metal in the general vicinity. Hey, what is Gerson wearing at all times again? Yeah, a metal suit of armor. This would give Oogway some nice control of the battlefield, helping keep Gerson’s in place. You don’t actually have to land this technique on the metal itself for it to work, it kind of just… levitates on its own as you do it. This would be useful to remove Gerson’s armor and even land those pressure point techniques that Oogway can’t normally land.

Some techniques Oogway’s got would straight up just shift the battle in his favor immensely. First, we have the Fluttering Finger Mindslip. Using this over and over again would straight up make Gerson forget not only the fight, but himself as well. Given this is 1. A bit of a cheap technique for Oogway to go for, which he probably wouldn’t do normally and 2. Gerson being more mobile with teleportation and faster on some ends would mean pulling this off at all would be greatly effective, but actually doing so is the hard part here. Next is the Golden Lotus Clap. This would be pretty easy to pull off for Oogway, as all he has to do is yell “Golden Lotus Clap!” and clap his hands together. Pulling this off would blind Gerson to give Oogway a way in, and heavily put Gerson at a disadvantage. But Gerson does have his theoretical ways around it. This is a bit of an AOE attack, that Gerson could just disappear and then reappear for with his teleportation. Also… Gerson does usually have only one eye open pretty much at all times, meaning Oogway might have to use this twice to get Gerson fully blinded. Regardless, it's still a big battle shifter. Then the big one, the Clap of Stillness. This would do a few different things for Oogway in this fight. For one, any speed differences Gerson has against Oogway would be heavily voided. Since it just freezes everything in its area in time, this would be pretty easy to land also. In the demonstration for the Clap of Stillness, we see it affecting arrows several yards away, but the differences fluctuate between uses, meaning it’s likely controllable by the user. We’ve seen people be stuck in time from this thing for like… ever. So not only would this negate the speed difference between the two, Oogway could pull a Doctor Who and just leave Gerson frozen in time forever. Morbid, but definitely a win convention. Gerson’s only way around this is to try and teleport or run away until it’s too late. Then there’s also chi petrification, which, technically is transmutation right? So, Gerson resists it? Well, no, not quite. Darkners have been shown to be vulnerable to being turned to stone before if they stay in a Dark World they aren't compatible with. And one last thing, Gerson reflecting any kind of energy projectiles could easily be reflected back at him as we see with Po's Thundering Wind Hammer technique and even Po reflecting Shen's cannonballs.

Then there’s Gerson’s main method of attacking, this is the big one. Taking control of the SOUL, and inflicting damage upon it. Saying Gerson could negate Oogway’s entire power advantage here would be a pretty big thing to declare, and would potentially put the fight heavily in Gerson’s favor, like some of Oogway’s techniques do. But it’s important that we first break down how SOULs and spirits work in between Deltarune and Kung Fu Panda’s universes. The SOUL is described as the “culmination of your being”, and what represents an individual spiritually. The representation of one’s soul in Kung Fu Panda is their spirit, as we see when Jindiao’s soul is being removed, his spirit form is shifting in and out of his body, confirming this. When Oogway perished, he became a Spirit Warrior and lived on as his soul, or, the culmination of his being. So if Gerson were to be attacking Oogway with his SOUL Manipulation, Gerson would be singling out Oogway’s spirit form and attacking that. Why is this important? Well, Oogway has been shown to fight on-par as a spirit like he would as a regular physical person. Given that spiritual forms and physical forms can be considered comparable here, at least in a Spirit Warrior’s case, means that if Oogway’s soul is attacked, it would be incredibly hard to fully make a dent in it. Typical SOULs in Deltarune, Kris’s especially, are incredibly vulnerable. That’s why characters even attack it in the first place. The maximum amount of damage an attack could do would be if the SOUL didn’t have any armor on at all, and armor in Deltarune protects the SOUL of the wearer and not the person physically, which pretty much solidifies this. But Oogway is different. He’s a Spirit Warrior with defenses on his soul comparable to his actual body (which we know is already much stronger than Gerson physically) negating Gerson’s durability negation entirely. If Gerson manipulated Oogway’s SOUL in battle, the battle does not now become Gerson VS Oogway’s soul, but basically just Gerson VS Oogway again. The Soul Manipulation would just put them on the same ground they were already at. So if Oogway’s SOUL were to be put into the Battle Board, realistically speaking, attacks onto it wouldn’t do that much damage. 

Once it’s all laid out, Gerson doesn’t have many counters to Oogway’s abilities. There are a few, like the Wuxi Finger Hold, and usually pressure point techniques, but other than that it’s hard for our hammering turtle to catch a break here. With the much greater abilities, Oogway takes the Spirit category.

Recap

Oogway taking all three categories here might make this seem like a bit of a stomp, but Gerson isn’t without his fair share of advantages. From some angles he’s pretty consistently faster and a lot more ruthless in his fighting approach. He has a few situational ways around multiple of Oogway’s techniques, but all of that isn’t enough for Gerson to take it here.

Conclusion

Gerson

“Whatever you end up being, I’m sure it’ll be tremendous.”

Advantages:

• Generally faster without cosmic ends

• Duplication gives Gerson a numbers advantage

• Durability Negation with SOUL Manipulation could make up for the power difference 

• Far better mobility options in a battle scenario via speed and teleportation

• Gerson’s armor can assure that he can hold his own for a good while and protects against any kind of nerve attacks Oogway can use

• Darkner physiology negates the Wuxi Finger Hold, regular Transmutation, and other BFR options

• Better healing options

• Has equipment much better suited for combat

• His tendency to steal items would put Oogway at even more of an arsenal disadvantage 

• Can deflect any energy-based projectiles thrown his way...

• Bagged a magician human in Undertale

• One of the best boss fights and characters in Deltarune

Disadvantages:

• Much less skilled and experienced

• Far weaker with or without cosmic ends

• Slower with cosmic ends

• No counter to battle shifters like the Golden Lotus Clap, Clap of Stillness, and Fluttering Finger Mindslip

• No resistance to chi petrification

• …Oogway can deflect projectiles right back

• “You guys, Kris’s gender is up to interpreta-” stfu

• [Insert inevitable fandom joke here]

Oogway

“On the first day we met, I saw the future of kung fu... and the past. I saw the panda who could unite them both. That is why I chose you, Po. Both sides of the yin and yang, and my true successor.”

Advantages:

• Overall stronger with or without cosmic ends

• Should be roughly 5x faster with the Wellspring scaling’s high end...

• ...and even if the higher end is bought isn’t, Clap of Stillness makes up for the speed difference

• Faaaar more intelligent, experienced, and skilled in combat

• Golden Lotus Clap, Clap of Stillness, and Fluttering Finger Mindslip would all heavily shift the battle in Oogway’s favor

• Yangtze Spleen Punch and Silken Moon Touch would help vastly if Gerson has a large amount of duplicates out

• Chi petrification would finish off Gerson outright

• Has a spirit comparable to his physical body, which could make consistent attacks on his SOUL harder to execute

• Can come back from the Spirit Realm after (physically) dying...

• “Mm... Monkey...“

• HEAR THE LEGENDS OF THE KUNG FU PANDA!!!! 🔥🔥🗣️🗣️

Disadvantages:

• Consistently slower

• Worse arsenal overall

• Fluttering Finger Mindslip and Silken Moon Touch both require heavy setup to be effective

• Some techniques wouldn’t work on/are countered by Gerson

• ...Loses if enough damage to the SOUL (his spirit form) is dealt

• Dies in literally the first movie

• Kung Fu Panda 4

• We have a lot of... varying thoughts on the film

• There might be a sequel in the works 💀

Final Tally

Gerson (1) - Necrostar

Oogway (11) - AlfieMations, Dash Fish, Fnaf fan_1234, KobeHydra211, Lolman, Mediocre Productions, MonkeyBoi, Moofie, MorninGoblin, Pad, StoryDove

Gerson sure put his SOUL into it, but there sure as shell wasn't any way for Oog to lose.

The winner is Master Oogway.

Matchup Shoutouts

Here’s some DR and KFP matchup shoutouts from the researchers and I! Thought about putting Undertale matchups here too, but I didn’t wanna bloat this section too much. - Dash Fish

Deltarune Matchups

Fun Gang VS Occult Club

Dash Fish:

Idk why but this is genuinely one of the only matchups I will just love no matter what. I think the fact that it works connection and fight-wise despite the weirdness that may emanate from it at first is awesome, and it also has a really cool blog you should go read. ALSO WATCH DANDADAN!

Necrostar:

I should watch Dandadan… 🤔

Kris VS The Batter

Dash Fish:

Kind of potential man the MU at the point of writing this blog, but that’s very fitting for the batter tbh lol. Anyways, the conflict of this playing into the contrast of Kris actively pushing away the player’s influence vs the Batter just straight up accepting the player is kind of perfect? And ofc the indie-darlingness of both series helps the MU a lot too, but yeah. This’ll probably be better once those final chapters are out. Maybe.

Mediocre Productions:

This is a potential mu to me, as in it has potential to be excellent! Just really depending on how these last DR chapters pan out. I’ve never been a fan of Frisk vs The Batter for being a Frisk mu that intentionally focuses on the Genocide route, but like this mu just kind of works for Kris as a whole. I’m really rooting for this one.

Fnaf fan_1234:

Honestly the more time goes on the more this becomes my favorite for both. It's not perfect and Kris should definitely get more material, but as if now I think it's generally very solid and most regards and I like the whole puppet theme it has.

Necrostar:

Yeah I think I prefer this a lot more than Frisk vs Batter, two player characters that are not only aware of their strings, but treat them on complete opposite, one of them wanting freedom while the other uses said puppetmaster to his advantage, yeah man this just goes hard, Kris is my favorite Deltarune character and I hope our relationship with them can make this matchup more interesting (shoutouts to Sumireko and Teto tho, great alts).

Susie (Gaster) VS Sasha Waybright

Necrostar:

I love me some mean girls turned best friends duking it out with sharp weapons, yes siree.

Mallow VS Ralsei

Dash Fish:

Idk this matchup just feels nice to me. The two well-meaning JRPG princes, healers of their teams, wondering if they’ll ever stack up to the others around them, and they’re also kind of trans-coded too! It’s really enough for me to like it and it would probably make for a simple yet effective blog once Deltarune is finished. Although I wonder if Mallow scales to Mario beyond the first SMRPG game...

Mediocre Productions:

Mu featuring a Mario RPG character

I don’t have much to say other than it’s neat. 

Berdly VS Marcy Wu

Pad:

Despite Marcy (probably) clotheslining Berdly with Calamity Powers, I think the connections and banter potential make this a decent enough matchup.

Dash Fish:

This is just basically erm actually the matchup but it actually works and that's goated. Probably need more on Berdly tho, ngl

Berdly VS Tobias

Moofie:

This is just really fucking funny okay??? Shoutouts to Eddiefrb.

Caine VS Tenna

StoryDove:
While I prefer Amanda the Adventurer (Two reality-altering hosts from the media which traps people within it.) This is also cool.

Fnaf fan_1234:

YES! YES! YES! I love this matchup, even if they had literally zero connections the vibe would still be through the roof. I love the idea of adventures and mini-games constantly taking over the animation, I love the idea of NPCs vs Tenna's employees, I just love everything about it. The only thing it suffers with is the debate, as Tenna doesn't really have an actual counter to Caine just deleting him unfortunately, there is the contract which can stop Caine from attacking but I don't think Tenna is gonna get that off before Caine just snaps his fingers. Overall though, it's still just really fun.

Necrostar:

I love it when the show master gets depressed, yeah the more episodes of TADC come out this matchup grows on me, even if I don't know if it's my preferred matchup for Tenna, it's certainly one of the best.

Spamton VS Alastor

Necrostar:

It just keeps getting BETTER AND BETTER! Like, how the fuck does Spamton become one of the best Alastor opponents as time goes on? Went from fighting guys like Black Hat and Bill to fighting the funny salesman [1997]. I think their Magic bouncing off of each other or Alastor toying Spamton about his strings or how he’ll never be truly free, only for Spamton to turn it around and call out Alastor on his hypocrisy, it's just incredible how good the matchup gets. Oh and fun fact, I checked like 4 times, and I'm proud to say I'm the creator of this matchup, so that makes me happy :D

Moofie:

Season 2 definitely solidified this matchup as good in my eyes. Their unique way of speech, their salesman personas, acting that way to seem like they’re on top and their desperate want for freedom. It’s all perfect. So while having far different types of movesets, I believe those differences help balance out the matchup to stand out. 

Mediocre Productions:

After Season 2 of Hazbin Hotel this went from a mu I wasn’t very caring for to one of my top 20 almost immediately. I thought the mu was a has been but in reality it was BIG SHOT. It’s one hell of a deal and uhh…. Some pun about puppets here, guess I’ll just put a sock in it. These two interacting would just be amazing, as well as the clash being reminiscent of Alastor battling different forms of media. Very interested in what a track would be for this, as well as how the fight will work, incorporating the DR battle system with the stylistic combat of Hazbin. Overall just a matchup I’ve completely fallen in love with. Also like again… music potential has gotta be like phenomenal. Hazbin has mixed styles in the past, so I’d love if they tried that here to an extreme degree. Incorporate the freedom motif somewhere, but like I’d like a start up with a show tune style, and electronic digital music. Have it goofy but as the fight progresses make it get more intense and especially violent when Neo comes out and Alastor has one of his super scary moments. 

Fnaf fan_1234:

I got on the train for this matchup earlier than most, I thought this was the best for both back when people still thought the TV was Mike. I was really surprised at the incredible boost in popularity it got after season 2, but damn am I happy it got that boost because yeah, this is in fact the best for both. Its connections are solid, its banter is through the roof, its animation potential is fun and I do think it still does have a debate factor to it. It's also one of the few Spamton matchups that goes deeper into his character which is definitely a plus in my book, not to say none of his other matchups do or even that the ones that don't are bad, but it definitely helps this matchup stand above the rest.

Spamton VS Wheatley

Moofie:

While not the most thematic matchup for either really, what it does succeed in though is with how simple it really is! Wanting freedom despite their limitations, having to use the protagonists (although Spamton was actively using Kris, while Wheatley genuinely wanted to help Chell escape) to eventually gain a new body of theirs and transform the place they’re residing into their image. Only to get defeated and put in their place, having realized what went wrong facing their respective planets. There is a bit of an issue regarding how Wheatley would even fight to begin with but why not start with his descent in GLaDOS’ body? Or pull a Lego Dimensions and have him float for whatever reason, if that suits your fancy. Have Spamton go throughout the corrupted Aperture and then face Wheatley in the body of his own. Utilizing their weird ways of fighting, Spamton with his magic, Wheatley with his bombs and other Aperture equipment, and it’s just a fun battle.

Dash Fish:

PORTAL MATCHUP SPOTTED!!! The banter alone is enough for me to want this. ken from the barbie movie might be a better opponent for wheatley tho ngl

Fnaf fan_1234:

Gotta say this actually vibes pretty nicely.

N.M.E. Sales Guy VS Spamton

Dash Fish:

Clobbah dat dere spamton

Lancer VS Bonnie

MonkeyBoi:

QUIT MAKING THOSE GOOFY FACES!!!

Necrostar:

Your honor, they will throw cookies at each other and it'll be absolute cinema.

Queen VS GLaDOS

Moofie:

Yeah, it’s a fun matchup. I mean who wouldn’t love to see these two hot robots interacting? Could also get something out of their projectiles against one another.

Necrostar:

Yeah bro I love unserious vs serious matchups LOL. Admittedly it's not really close, but the idea of Queen making her way through aperture and annoying GLaDOS by destroying or outright ignoring the tests is hilarious, I love it.

Dash Fish:

The fight is basically just this the whole time:

Berdly VS Reggie

Mediocre Productions:
I created this as a joke, and I can no longer tell if I like it ironically or unironically. Reggie sweeps, and that is based.

MonkeyBoi:

Berdly sweeps, and that is based. 

Mr. (Ant) Tenna VS Mr. Puzzles

Pad:

My preferred for Mr. Puzzles over Vox. Good connections, good banter potential… Probably one of the best SMG4 matchups? Who can say?

MonkeyBoi:

Seems like a good matchup for Puzzles I can get behind this over Vox. Speaking of SMG4 characters, I might as well give yall an update on the SMG4 character blog, process has been going pretty well and I’m about 80% done with the blog, I just need to add in a bit more detail into the equipment, write the background and experience and it should all be good from there. It’s definitely not coming out in 2025 for obvious reasons, but stay tuned when it drops in 2026. 

Moofie:

While I wouldn’t exactly say this is a matchup I’m fond of for either, dammit it would still be fun to see.

Fnaf fan_1234:

It's fine, I love me some Mr. Puzzles and this isn't perfect but it covers both decently and could definitely have a fun animation. Also, RIP SMG4.

Allister VS Jackenstein

Necrostar:

I came up with this matchup literally just a few weeks ago, but I adore it. Two Spooky characters who hide their adorable faces behind a creepy mask and don't technically fight directly, I think this is one of the most interesting Pokémon Trainer matchups. And if you think that the dots through Jack’s mazes can charge Allister’s dynamax band, you can even implement Gigantamax Gengar if you want. Also Mimikyu is here, Mimikyu vs Jackenstein fans shall be pleased.

Lolman:
Now this is pretty epic,
The idea of both scaring each other by accident sounds really funny and cute to me.

Sly VS Gerson

Lolman:

Another cool Gerson matchup against a tiny mentor figure who we meet as an npc, then becomes a shopkeeper, and then an optional boss. who are both great masters using weapons bigger than themselves and have some unresolved troubles with someone close to them.

Kung Fu Panda Matchups

Po VS Casey Rhodes

Lolman:

Po has a bunch of cool options but I wanna highlight my favorite red ranger.

The connections are simple but effective, their personalities would bounce off each other super well, and I love both characters.

Azula VS Tai Lung

Pad:

I think this might be my favorite Kung Fu Panda related matchup.

MonkeyBoi:

Moofie:

Yeah, while there are probably better Avatar vs KFP matchups, this one still hits the right bars for me to care about. Everything below captures my exact thoughts.

Dash Fish:

Fellow BOTA lore enthusiasts remember how this was the matchup that somehow got second place against El Macho VS Fairy Godmother. Machomother was really fun to do but I’m still kinda salty this didn’t win lol. Anyways I love this matchup SO much and it goes into both Azula and Tai’s characters so well, with such a unique dynamic of fire-based attacks against Tai Lung’s up close and fast-paced fighting style. There could be a moment where Azula sets the ground ablaze, then having Tai Lung run through the firewall, setting his paws on fire as a reference to his fight against Shifu, oh my god there’s so much potential here. Not sure who wins, but either victor pleading to their fathers that they finally succeeded near the end would be genuinely tear-jerking. God I hope this matchup happens on DB someday, but Azula’s probably gonna fight Cinder anyways tbh :(

Mediocre Productions:
I sort of fell out of love with the other Kung Fu Panda vs Avatar: The Last Airbender mus, except for this one. I will admit it’s not perfect thematically, but what it covers is amazing. I don’t know everything about this is just…. Epic. The fight dynamic is also just really fun I think. A bender vs non-bender matchup sounds weird… Until you remember Tai Lung’s most iconic moment is him just grabbing fire for some reason. Then it becomes a cool martial arts fight. Idk, Azula rocks, Tai Lung rocks, and the comparison rocks. So in conclusion the mu rocks. ….SHOOT I SHOULD’VE SAID FIRE- 

Necrostar:

Yeah nothing much to say this just vibes, Tai Lung and Azula are such interesting characters when looking deeper into it, I like this matchup 

Peach VS Tai Lung

Moofie:

Hold on,,,, a peach cannot defeat Tai Lung!!!

Mediocre Productions:
Wait….. Maybe it can, if you're willing to guide it, to nurture it, and believe in it…

Pad:

Not sure what to make of this one… What are the connections-WAIT A MINUTE…WAIT A MINUTE…

Necrostar:

I remember a time when this was my 9th most wanted… damn.

MonkeyBoi:

Jarrod VS Tai Lung

Lolman:

Going from my favorite red ranger, to my favorite Power Rangers villain. 

It’s a cool and thematic counterpart to Po vs Casey that also stands fine on its own.

Shifu VS Splinter

Dash Fish:

Shifu being my favorite character from the series and having a really awesome matchup to go along with that honestly makes me so happy. I love how it goes into both of their stories, matches their kung fu skills with one another, and could result in some really great banter. If it ever happens on DB it would give the team time to research more into mid-tier KFP scaling and overall dive deeper into the series as a whole. I’m less knowledgeable on Splinter, but given everything I’ve heard for him he likely wins, which is sad since Shifu is my goat, but oh well…

Sort of unrelated to the matchup is that the blog for it really did help us out a lot in organizing stuff here and is such a great analysis of both TMNT and KFP that you should go read!!! (if you haven’t)

MonkeyBoi:

PLLLLLLEASE LET THIS HAPPEN IN 2026!!!

Lolman:
Bro it’s Shifu vs Splinter. What can I say that hasn’t been said a billion times. It’s peak for all the reasons you have seen and heard, make it happen already Death Battle!

Mediocre Productions:

The most turtle matchup that does not feature a turtle. I’ve always loved this one, but after rewatching the Kung Fu Panda films + legends of awesomeness for this blog, as well having my TMNT hyperfixation resurface, I’ve gained a new found appreciation for this one. Something about this mu being about legacy is just really fun to me. 

AlfieMations:

I second all of these.

Fnaf fan_1234:

I mean, what can I say that hasn't been said already? It's peak and everyone knows it.

Necrostar: 

This one sparks nostalgia and I love it, predicting this as the next KFP episode we get.

Tirek VS Kai

Moofie:

I have had a hard time deciding whether I prefer this over Moro for Tirek, but I think I do like this better. For one, it’s actually thematic and doesn’t boil him down to a “goat” (he’s a centaur). And these two bring such a cool vibe as a matchup. Kai’s Jade swords vs Tirek’s ever expanding magic similar to his fight against Twilight would be so cool. Also like Kai trying to navigate around Tirek’s abilities, rocks and whatnot while Tirek tries to take on the Jombie army or absorbs their magic. But this image made by u/Carbonated-Jems encapsulates my thoughts overall.

Dash Fish:

A thematically and perfectly sound matchup with some neat fight potential! But this is probably only fair if you wank Kai to high hell.

Mediocre Productions:

Kind of just…. Thematically perfect? Like, they basically have the exact same story, both being ancient animal warlords with a brother (Oogway was a brother in spirit), who came to a peaceful society (the ponies and the pandas), but where their brothers (Scorpan and Oogway) found new found redemption and purpose, the mad conquerors merely continued in their ways, finding ways to harness the very life energy of beings and take them for themselves. Betrayed by their brothers, they lost any semblance of humanity, becoming pure literal power-hungry villains. They were banished to spiritual realms (The Spirit realm and Tartarus, yes the mythological hell, MLP lore is wild), before returning centuries later to conquer, before being undone by their very lack of understanding of harmony. Only major difference is that Tirek returns after being defeated but that’s less important. This matchup is so good thematically… but like, limited in other aspects. Kai in spite of his chi based abilities is very physical combat oriented, while Tirek is firing energy beams and casting spells and what not, you just can’t make good use of Tirek’s full arsenal. Also like….. Yeah what is Kai even supposed to do here lol? Even still I really enjoy this matchup as a good alt for both.

Fnaf fan_1234:

Solid thematically, but Jesus poor Kai lol. What is he even supposed to do here?

Death VS Kai

Moofie:
There doesn’t need to be complex connections to understand the appeal of this matchup. You have one character who is literally death deciding to chase after someone that has invalidated their death seeking the attention he believes he deserves. It writes itself. Throw in their chilling motifs and imagery and you’ve gotten yourself a sick matchup.

Mediocre Productions: 

This is a mu where like….. Thematics are weird and stretched… but it kinda just works anyway? The main issue with most Death mus, is that Death literally wouldn’t give a darn about most of his opponents. He only went after Puss because dude had nine whole lives and didn’t appreciate any of them, and arrogantly declares himself above death. Kai however, is a mu where like, yeah I can see Death going after Kai. Kai broke the rules of the afterlife and proceeded to not learn the errors from his way of life, and also arrogantly took the lives of others. He defied death and life. I can see Death going after him for these reasons. The fight also would be cool. I think Death soloing the Jombies before taking on Kai himself would be really cool. Kai realizing Death isn’t just some wolf but the literal personification of death straight up, would be a highlight moment. Either winning is really satisfying narratively. Either Death properly ends Kai’s arrogance, or Kai conquers Death itself, making his eventual downfall at Po’s hands even more significant. Easily my favorite for both.

Dash Fish:

One of the only Death matchups that works in my eyes. The potential of Death destroying the entire jombie army in the same way he broke Puss’s other lives… Kai trying to take Death’s chi only to see he probably doesn’t have any… and Kai making that last final realization that he IS death, straight up. It’s so awesome.

Fnaf fan_1234:

I like it, probably Death's best on account of the fact that he doesn't have any better. It also actually works unlike 99% of Death’s other matchups.

Necrostar:

If my name didn't make it obvious, I love Necromancers and Grim Reapers, and the dynamic Is so simple yet so perfect, would love to see it happen.

Morro VS Kai

Lolman:

I fucking Love Ninjago vs Kung Fu Panda matchups man, it’s such a great franchise pairing!

Dash Fish:

Tirek, Death, AND Morro?? Why is Kai’s MU spread so gas??

Mediocre Productions

The Kai mu I have the least thoughts on, but pretty good! Morro is weirdly more similar to Tai Lung character wise, but like this works fine thematically. It would be cool. My least favorite of the three so far but still really good!

Taotie VS Ludo

Moofie:

The second Taotie matchup!!!!!! behind doof!!!!! Idk when researching for my Legends of Awesomeness episodes Taotie kinda sorta became one of my favorite parts of the show? So I tried thinking of characters that he reminded me of, and well I landed on one that he did the most! Ludo Avarius of Mewni! One of my favorite, and frankly the only consistently good written character throughout SVTFOE. 

Both start out their stories as these basic bad guys wanting to obtain a magical artifact that’ll grant them the statuses they desire most via their constant scheming with a suddenly showing up approach! But as the series starts to progress we get more into the depths of the characters. They end up “befriending” their most hated enemies, Po and Star respectively, only to be seen more as a one-sided friendship ironically on the enemy side, but still cherishing them as their only true friends. 

All the while emotionally and mentally being driven to insanity after their countless defeats by the hands of them. Where we then get to know of their family history and how that affected them to today. Leading to the relationships with their closest families, Taotie’s kid, Bian Zao and Ludo’s brother, Dennis. Both of which act as the moral compass for them despite their completely opposite attitudes, yet loving them unconditionally even if they do somehow mess something up. Gaining a better respect for the both as the series continues, as they come together on a more mutual level. 

Culminating as Taotie and Ludo stand up for them against an enemy that tried taking advantage of Bian Zao’s and Dennis’ emotions, even with their perceived lower tier status in comparison. Ending with the high note that they won in that regard and will continue to grow.

So while it doesn’t cover everything for both, considering the lack of machines mentioned or everything with toffee I think this covers both pretty well. Speaking of machines, as for the fight potential you can probably give Taotie all of his machines to help him fight against the eagle and spider (and maybe Ludo’s army if you think he should still have it). Possibly incorporating Bian Zao and Dennis into the fight too. Maybe with the lightning vs magic portals dynamic as they both try to help Taotie and Ludo with something that isn’t working at the moment. And don’t get me started on the banter potential. If you’ve seen both characters before, you’ll know how it would go. Surprised I had so much to say about it, I genuinely love this matchup.

Mediocre Productions:

Dude…. Legends of Awesomeness, like unironically, still really holds up, and Taotie is one of the best parts of the show. He’s such a fun character. Ludo is also like…. The only completely flawless part of Star vs the Forces of Evil. Idk how else to describe it, they’re just of the same vibe. Also there’s an episode where Po and Taotie are written as if they’re in a relationship fighting over how to raise their child. This isn’t relevant but it’s so peak I had to mention it somewhere.

The Furious Frauds Five vs The Forbidden Frauds Five

TN by The Underuser (Hi buddy - lolman)

Lolman:

GET IT. BOTH GROUPS ARE FRAUDS!
Ok in all seriousness, it’s a pretty cool 5 v 5 hero vs villain matchup, where you can have some cool interactions between the Furious fives animal style martial arts and the Forbidden Five’s elemental powers.

Announcements + Next Time

Dash Fish

Just feel like I should say the SifQuiet blog has been archived here. It's deleted because I just didn't feel comfortable with keeping it up anymore, but at the same time I also didn't wanna erase history like that. If you're aware of the stuff surrounding the blog, then I'm sure you know why it's been removed. That is all.

Anyways! Let's move on. BOTA's gonna be taking a break over January, and because of that here's some characters teasing some various upcoming blogs. Happy New Year, and as always, thanks for reading!